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French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

Erod said:
French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

I really don't know what to write. Is this even real? Are you freaking kidding me?

Hollande wants to punish kids for having involved parents out of "fairness"?

So is he going to ban parenting next? It's really no more absurd than banning homework.
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This sounds like Euro-Socialism to me, and the Germans tried something like this.

The Germans tried to dumb down the school system in a lot of states in an effort to level the playing field. Bavaria didn't partake in the stupidity.

The result?
Well off parents, concerned parents didn't let their kids get away with a third rate education.

Instead of narrowing the gap... it made it wider!!! BLAMO!!!

Typical Lib-Socialists... they get the exact opposite result from their hare brained schemes as desired.

The same will result in France.
It's how Socialists develop a voter base... generate ignorance.
 
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PeteEU said:
French children are in school longer hours than most countries. Their daily school time is at minimum.. some even more.. from 8:30 am to 4:30 pm on a week day. Burnout rates are quite high according to many.. just saying. They are also looking into expanding number of days (less vacation).

On top of that the quality of teachers is extremely high, since bad teachers are actually kicked out.. I know shock horror.

The French higher education system is also extremely harsh when compared to other countries.. longer hours, more exams, higher requirements and so on.
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wait they say they go to school 4 days a week...we here go 5 days a week and for us almost the same amount of hrs....HS here is from 7:55 to 3:00 5 days a week....we have very high requirements as a top Charter and teachers in our charter also get thrown out...they have no tenure.....and the school runs by its rules not the district rules being it is a charter. I have never heard of French schools being so hard....if anything the opposite. Homework in our school has shown to be beneficial....that is if the kids do it....when the kids dont they fall behind...stopping homework because of those that dont do it seems to me the wrong way to go...why not so what our school does and make tutoring available for all those kids that need it after school. Doing HW does not make kids stupid it makes them smarter.....and readies them for college....
 
zimmer said:
This sounds like Euro-Socialism to me, and the Germans tried something like this.

The Germans tried to dumb down the school system in a lot of states in an effort to level the playing field. Bavaria didn't partake in the stupidity.

The result?
Well off parents, concerned parents didn't let their kids get away with a third rate education.

Instead of narrowing the gap... it made it wider!!! BLAMO!!!

Typical Lib-Socialists... they get the exact opposite result from their hare brained schemes as desired.

The same will result in France.
It's how Socialists develop a voter base... generate ignorance.
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its like what they did here when schools were geared more to boys and the boys were excelling in school and the girls were falling far behind....so they changed the way of teaching to get the girls back up to passing and now we have girls excelling and boys falling behind.....with more girls making it into college.....schools for the boys were geared towards the way boys learned....with lots of hands on and moving around....they found that girls did better when sitting and so they changed it to suit the girls....with this change the boys fell back and to this day they teach to the girls way/advantage....some schools have gone ahead and segregated girl from boys in classrooms with girls doing desk work and boys being able to move about ,sit on the floor and have hands on learning and they have found that the students have excelled in both circumstances....our education needs a new way of doing things in so many ways....

and Frances way is not going to change a thing....those kids that want to study will and those that never did won't....the parents that were engaged before will continue to do so and the ones that didn't will continue not to. The problem is not with the HW...the problem is with the parents...and maybe the lack of support from the teachers and schools.
 
Politicaladdict said:
wait they say they go to school 4 days a week...we here go 5 days a week and for us almost the same amount of hrs....HS here is from 7:55 to 3:00 5 days a week....we have very high requirements as a top Charter and teachers in our charter also get thrown out...they have no tenure.....and the school runs by its rules not the district rules being it is a charter. I have never heard of French schools being so hard....if anything the opposite. Homework in our school has shown to be beneficial....that is if the kids do it....when the kids dont they fall behind...stopping homework because of those that dont do it seems to me the wrong way to go...why not so what our school does and make tutoring available for all those kids that need it after school. Doing HW does not make kids stupid it makes them smarter.....and readies them for college....
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Talking to French students who have experienced education over here, they say our school is much easier, gives far less homework, shorter hours, and the teachers care. I had to write an an essay in french about this topic, and the points made are stress, and strain on family relations, along with recent studies that say homework doesn't improve grades.
 
0bserver92 said:
Talking to French students who have experienced education over here, they say our school is much easier, gives far less homework, shorter hours, and the teachers care. I had to write an an essay in french about this topic, and the points made are stress, and strain on family relations, along with recent studies that say homework doesn't improve grades.
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how about sharing a cite
 
justabubba said:
how about sharing a cite
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Currently everything know about the studies is from here. It says inconclusive evidence but I needed a third point anyway. Form my own experience that is the case homework doesn't improve my marks, I get everything done in class therefore no homework and I have a really high average.
 
0bserver92 said:
Currently everything know about the studies is from here. It says inconclusive evidence but I needed a third point anyway. Form my own experience that is the case homework doesn't improve my marks, I get everything done in class therefore no homework and I have a really high average.
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thanks for the cite
it offers nothing other than an unfounded opinion that homework does not improve academic performance
i will stipulate that there are students who are high performers even without doing homework. but they are the exceptions
for the student with average aptitude, i would believe those that deepened their understanding of a subject while doing homework would normally out-perform those who did not. and like you, i have no cite/research as basis for my opinion

in reading that page this other aspect of the education reform jumped out at me:
reducing the number of students held back each year
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excuse me?
it is not as if those students have been held back arbitrarily
but now they will be promoted even tho they were unable to learn the material in the last grade
their subsequent teacher will have a classroom of students that are prepared to master the new work .... plus those who are not. because they were socially promoted
this portion of his reform proposal may be more absurd than his elimination of homework
 
I'm for banning of homework. IMO... kids need more work at home FROM home. Teach them their 7-8 hours a day in school, let them go home and let them engage with their families. I'm for it.
 
The supposed justification, that he is doing this promote some sort egalitarian goal, is not a part of the quoted text. For that reason I am somewhat skeptical of the article.
 
As far as being less education in France... from the article:


Despite the four-day school week, elementary school children in France spend more hours a year in school than many other developed countries because students are there all day, starting at 8:30 a.m. and ending at 4:30 p.m., with some kids staying even later.​


And Hollande wants to up it from 4 days a week to 4 1/2 days a week. So even more hours.
 
poweRob said:
As far as being less education in France... from the article:

Despite the four-day school week, elementary school children in France spend more hours a year in school than many other developed countries because students are there all day, starting at 8:30 a.m. and ending at 4:30 p.m., with some kids staying even later.​


And Hollande wants to up it from 4 days a week to 4 1/2 days a week. So even more hours.
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It is also a way for parents to teach their children what their good at. For example a dad who is a mechanic can teach their child about fixing engines and his knowledge of the trade. Thereby passing on his knowledge to the next generation. Instead of spending time try to help his child with biology, social studies and other subjet that he have very litltle knowledge in.
 
poweRob said:
I'm for banning of homework. IMO... kids need more work at home FROM home. Teach them their 7-8 hours a day in school, let them go home and let them engage with their families. I'm for it.
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The problem is that more children are coming from broken homes and single parents families, which this new law is attempting to address.

Whether it is doing that in the best way is why its being debated.
 
Grant said:
The problem is that more children are coming from broken homes and single parents families, which this new law is attempting to address.

Whether it is doing that in the best way is why its being debated.
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That's one way to put it. We see the effects of social dgeneration and instead of getting a handle on that they limit the ability of the traditional parents to spend time with their kids to level the playing field. There is more to raising children than what they learn in school.
 
book knowledge is only as good as the teachers teaching it.....and the willing of the students to want to learn it. Our Charter as I have said has a high graduation rate...small drop out rate and high college rate...and the teachers have no tenure and make the classes fun....and yes give homework everyday.....not to mention go to school more hrs then the French schools do......we are also a school of over 2400 students.
 
Erod said:
French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

I really don't know what to write. Is this even real? Are you freaking kidding me?

Hollande wants to punish kids for having involved parents out of "fairness"?

So is he going to ban parenting next? It's really no more absurd than banning homework.
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This is really stupid. Some kids certainly don't have help at home, but the best thing to do is offer increased after school tutoring for them, not just eliminate homework. For goodness sake, why are people so stupid.
 
tech30528 said:
That's one way to put it. We see the effects of social dgeneration and instead of getting a handle on that they limit the ability of the traditional parents to spend time with their kids to level the playing field. There is more to raising children than what they learn in school.
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Yes, certainly parents can do more but in most cases those who do more are already doing more. There are a great many responsible parents who look after their children when they're not in school, who do their best to turn them into well adjusted adults. But this s not what the proposal is about.

Perhaps it goes beyond what parents are doing at home and schools should focus more on what it takes to become responsible adults, with the ethics and morals that implies. Since the Christian religion has faltered in some areas there are few places left where young people can receive moral guidance, They don't seem to be getting it from pop culture and many of them aren't getting it at home. Where else but the schools?
 
That is it!

I am sick of people not respecting other ideas at all. (I'm referring to how you use socialist to refer to ANY position against your own.)

Socialism does not mean the lack of homework, and just because Holande, who is a center-left social democrat, is against homework, does not mean that the lack of homework is a socialist policy. (Or an Islamist one according to Marsden.)

In fact, you internet conservatives keep on claiming that America is under the EVUL SOCIALIST RULE OF DA DIKTATOR BARRACK HUSSEIN OSAMA, yet you would always support the various aspects of America's system over the European system. (All because Europeans have more welfare and a tiny bit more government intervention in economic matters.)

Also, you can't say that people's ideology determines their intelligence. (How are European social democrats somehow dumber than American conservatives? Nationality and ideology do not determine intelligence.) Even though, America, as a western developed country, has the highest percentage of people who reject the Theory of Evolution, which along with genetics forms the basis of modern day biology.

And, please use facts about both nations' educational systems instead of assertions based on your national prides.

Not only that, but this issue isn't even ideological or nationalistic in nature. It is an issue over educational philosophy. And, it is over homework. What merit does homework have in education? And, how is the lack of homework bad for education? And, how are students who want to learn penalized by the lack of homework, even though they can voluntarily or with their parents study at home?

After all, the site's motto is "Political bias optional, civility a MUST!". Live up to it.

(As for my position on this, I don't really care about the issue. I just hate it when people use logical fallacies and type terrible posts to further their agenda through an issue that is not related to the agenda.)
 
DinodudeEpic said:
That is it!

I am sick of people not respecting other ideas at all. (I'm referring to how you use socialist to refer to ANY position against your own.)
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It appears you are sick of opposing ideas yourself.

Socialists like the idea of social engineering, right?, just as this French Socialist is doing.

But don't think for a moment that there aren't others with some power who think they can't improve society with a little social engineering themselves. Self important dickheads are a danger to everyone everywhere.

Florida school board policy now lower expectations for blacks than whites :: Northern Colorado Gazette
 
dinodudeepic said:
that is it!

I am sick of people not respecting other ideas at all. (i'm referring to how you use socialist to refer to any position against your own.)

socialism does not mean the lack of homework, and just because holande, who is a center-left social democrat, is against homework, does not mean that the lack of homework is a socialist policy. (or an islamist one according to marsden.)

in fact, you internet conservatives keep on claiming that america is under the evul socialist rule of da diktator barrack hussein osama, yet you would always support the various aspects of america's system over the european system. (all because europeans have more welfare and a tiny bit more government intervention in economic matters.)

also, you can't say that people's ideology determines their intelligence. (how are european social democrats somehow dumber than american conservatives? Nationality and ideology do not determine intelligence.) even though, america, as a western developed country, has the highest percentage of people who reject the theory of evolution, which along with genetics forms the basis of modern day biology.

And, please use facts about both nations' educational systems instead of assertions based on your national prides.

Not only that, but this issue isn't even ideological or nationalistic in nature. It is an issue over educational philosophy. And, it is over homework. What merit does homework have in education? And, how is the lack of homework bad for education? And, how are students who want to learn penalized by the lack of homework, even though they can voluntarily or with their parents study at home?

After all, the site's motto is "political bias optional, civility a must!". Live up to it.

(as for my position on this, i don't really care about the issue. I just hate it when people use logical fallacies and type terrible posts to further their agenda through an issue that is not related to the agenda.)
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^socialist^
 
Grant said:
Yes, certainly parents can do more but in most cases those who do more are already doing more. There are a great many responsible parents who look after their children when they're not in school, who do their best to turn them into well adjusted adults. But this s not what the proposal is about.

Perhaps it goes beyond what parents are doing at home and schools should focus more on what it takes to become responsible adults, with the ethics and morals that implies. Since the Christian religion has faltered in some areas there are few places left where young people can receive moral guidance, They don't seem to be getting it from pop culture and many of them aren't getting it at home. Where else but the schools?
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There is that flawed assumption again. Pop cture has failed and parents are disconnected or absent so we dfailt to letting the government do it? Does that really seem like a good option? So far the answer from them is not to help those with single parents of nk parents to dk better but to pull those who have two involved parents down. That's not progress peolpe, it's playing to the lowest common denominator.

A problem has been discovered, the fault lies in the parents, itis now their responsibilty to fix it as individuals in their own homes.
 
PeteEU has given a lot of misinformation about the French school system suggesting that they end at 5-6 and not mentioning the 2 hour break, so he can defend his point. This is how the French school system actually work.

[h=3]France[/h]The school day in France typically runs from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m., with a half day on Saturday, although students do not attend school on Wednesday or Sunday. Lunch is a two-hour break for public school students. Students usually attend school from ages 6 to 18. The average number of students per class is 23. Uniforms are not required, but religious dress of any kind is banned. The school year for this country in the northern hemisphere stretches from August to June, and is divided into four seven-week terms, with one to two weeks of vacation in between.

Read more: School Years around the World — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/school-years.html#ixzz29wtRL8V
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So in fact French students have about 28 hours per week. American students (not in Saudi Arabia) have normally 30-35 hours per week, and they do 1-2 hours of homework each day. Banning homework will be just as beneficial as the 75% tax rate.
 
justabubba said:
hell of a strategy to get ahead: do less work
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But it's the right answer. Working less, but better is an idea a famous American proved to work.

“Now we know from our experience in changing from six to five days and back again that we can get at least as great production in five days as we can in six… Just as the eight hour day opened our way to prosperity, so the five day week will open our way to a still greater prosperity.” — Henry Ford

Robbing kids of their play time by insisting on more and more homework and longer school hours is counter-productive.
 
Andalublue said:
Robbing kids of their play time by insisting on more and more homework and longer school hours is counter-productive.
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Working too little is counter-productive too, and it makes kids lazy which is not a good way to prepare them for adulthood.
 
As the mother of a 13 year old child with dyslexia - I understand the need for homework but I wish it were geared more toward learning than toward writing. I know that might not make much sense to people who haven't dealt with this learning disability and it took me many years to figure it out.

When he was little, I could make him write his spelling words ten times each every day. He failed almost every spelling test he took. Exasperated and really wanting an answer for my child (because I knew he wasn't dumb, he could do more with electronics that I could dream up) - I changed the way he studied spelling words. We studied out loud every night. On the final night I had him write them once each. He started making A's.

I have worked on my system with him for many years. I spend lots of time with him. I do all of his written homework for him. He studies verbally. He makes straight A's. We conquered his problem. He doesn't learn by writing. For a person with dyslexia, writing is much more labored. The brain thinks differently to get the letters on the page. He doesn't learn from writing. So I wish that there was no written homework, at least for my child. It is a wasted thing for him. He learns his material and aces his test without my assistance at school all the time. So I know that it works.

A child with a learning disability can spent countless hours (my child used to spend three to four hours each night , every night) doing homework that is not helping the child at all. That is a waste of time. But no homework at all would not allow the parents a good way to be a part of what the child is learning and I think we all should be a part of that in our children's lives.
 
Camlon said:
Working too little is counter-productive too, and it makes kids lazy which is not a good way to prepare them for adulthood.
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Of course, it just appears that the current trend appears to have been to pile more and more work upon schoolkids, more and more tests, and yet educational standards have declined. It would appear the law of diminishing returns is at work in the modern educational systems.
 
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