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Thread: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Of course, it just appears that the current trend appears to have been to pile more and more work upon schoolkids, more and more tests, and yet educational standards have declined. It would appear the law of diminishing returns is at work in the modern educational systems.
    So you apparently believe the average American student work so hard that their work diminishes. The reality is that while schools have been piling on work, students have not been doing more work.

    The average American student are nowhere near the tipping point. If that was the case, then if you got your average son to do one more hour of homework each day, his performance will decline. American students need to work much harder for that to happen.
    Last edited by Camlon; 10-21-12 at 09:40 PM.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Yes, quite. It's just that I tend towards the opinion that the current balance in many countries is towards too much work and too little leisure. Free time is good for the worker and their pursuit of happiness; improved productivity that comes from a relaxed worker is good for the employer; and more leisure time is good for the economy as consumers spend more money in free time than they do in work time.
    Still France is not doing better than America despite their low work hours and long vacation. And they are way behind harder working countries such as Australia, Switzerland and Canada. OECD Life Satisfaction. (The scale has been drawn so that 0 is 4.9 and 10 is 7.8. It reperesent how people would evaluate their lives on a scale from 0 to 10)

    You see, leisure time also have diminishing returns. At one point you may be happier worker longer hours, because it keeps you busy. Also, you can see how happy Greece is, so people's happiness are linked to the performance of the economy.
    Last edited by Camlon; 10-21-12 at 10:06 PM.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    So you apparently believe the average American student work so hard that their work diminishes. The reality is that while schools have been piling on work, students have not been doing more work.

    The average American student are nowhere near the tipping point. If that was the case, then if you got your average son to do one more hour of homework each day, his performance will decline. American students need to work much harder for that to happen.
    I wasn't talking about American schoolkids, but schoolkids in general. My knowledge is more related to education systems I am familiar with: the UK, Spain, Germany, Turkey. I was talking in general terms. If you are talking specifically about the US, where does your direct knowledge come from? You're a Norwegian living in New Zealand, aren't you?
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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I wasn't talking about American schoolkids, but schoolkids in general. My knowledge is more related to education systems I am familiar with: the UK, Spain, Germany, Turkey. I was talking in general terms. If you are talking specifically about the US, where does your direct knowledge come from? You're a Norwegian living in New Zealand, aren't you?
    Get with the forum rules! France = bad .. France = must be bashed!
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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I wasn't talking about American schoolkids, but schoolkids in general. My knowledge is more related to education systems I am familiar with: the UK, Spain, Germany, Turkey. I was talking in general terms. If you are talking specifically about the US, where does your direct knowledge come from? You're a Norwegian living in New Zealand, aren't you?
    I have lived in America too.

    France is not that hard or else their performance would be better. They are performing equally with America and Norway. There might be a few super schools, but clearly the average school is not any more difficult. And as shown the hours are not very long either.

    Removing homework is only going to hurt France, as France is clearly on the left side of the curve. Meaning, if an average french schoolkid does 1 more hour of homework each day, then that schoolkid will increase, not decrease its performance.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Get with the forum rules! France = bad .. France = must be bashed!
    I have no reason to bash France. My only experiences with France has been positive.

    But that does not mean I will ignore it's stupid policies. Like you are not ignoring America's stupid policies. But have you noticed that you are always on the offence when we are talking about America, but on the defense when we talk about Europe.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I have no reason to bash France. My only experiences with France has been positive.
    And yet you are almost always there bashing France or the Eu or anything European and defending anything America.

    But that does not mean I will ignore it's stupid policies.
    LOL you ignore them all the time. When was the last time you were critical of a stupid US policy... there are plenty of them to choose from.

    Like you are not ignoring America's stupid policies. But have you noticed that you are always on the offence when we are talking about America, but on the defense when we talk about Europe.
    Attacks against Europe on these boards, and from you are often baseless and without fact. So of course I will defend Europe and attack false information. As for "attacking the US".. wrong, at best I attack right wing US policies that I find objectionable.... which is a lot of policies btw.
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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I have lived in America too.

    France is not that hard or else their performance would be better.
    Performance in what? What measures are you using to assess the success or otherwise of educational systems? If their courses were harder than most, then you might expect to see lower marks and grades.
    They are performing equally with America and Norway.
    In what data set?

    Removing homework is only going to hurt France, as France is clearly on the left side of the curve. Meaning, if an average french schoolkid does 1 more hour of homework each day, then that schoolkid will increase, not decrease its performance.
    Can you show me where France appears on 'the curve'? I understand you're referring to my reference to diminishing returns, but I'm not aware of French schoolkids having appeared on any graph. If you have, please share this. It would be interesting and perhaps convincing proof of your contention that French kids aren't working hard enough.
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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Whether homework itself is beneficial or not (I'll always support the former), whether the hours of schooling are unfair in France or so on, I simply loathe Hollande's justification over fairness. If he is right, he is right for the wrong reasons.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    I asked one of my friends who teaches English to teenagers in Clichy sous Bois if he was happy with that reform. He told me that it wouldn't change anything for him as he usually avoids giving his students homeworks, because they end up using google translate and it's not of much help anyway. Those kids are somewhat lucky, I thought, they have a native English teacher who speaks with an impeccable accent and probably does his best inside their classroom. He likes his job, even if it's difficult, but his favorite part is when he takes a bunch of deserving kids for a short vacation in London, near the end of the school year. I believe it is some of his students' favorite time of the year, too, away from their family, and homeworks. Btw kids are human beings, not machines.

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