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Thread: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And yet you are almost always there bashing France or the Eu or anything European and defending anything America.

    LOL you ignore them all the time. When was the last time you were critical of a stupid US policy... there are plenty of them to choose from.
    I have been. Some of the things I have mentioned in the past weeks are

    - criticized US immigration. Said we should create a path to citizenship. I created a own thread for this topic
    - criticized Romney's 47% comment
    - criticized unions in Michigan
    - criticized US on it's reaction to the crisis in 2001.

    Now, how about you? How have you criticized EU lately?

    Attacks against Europe on these boards, and from you are often baseless and without fact. So of course I will defend Europe and attack false information. As for "attacking the US".. wrong, at best I attack right wing US policies that I find objectionable.... which is a lot of policies btw.
    So saying that French students work till 5-6 and not mentioning their 2 hour break are not baseless and without facts? You are spewing a lot of BS yourself.

    Why did you choose to make up facts like that, if you weren't trying to defend France at all costs. Even the 75% tax policy which you did not like, you were still trying to defend France.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    There is that flawed assumption again. Pop cture has failed and parents are disconnected or absent so we dfailt to letting the government do it? Does that really seem like a good option? So far the answer from them is not to help those with single parents of nk parents to dk better but to pull those who have two involved parents down. That's not progress peolpe, it's playing to the lowest common denominator.

    A problem has been discovered, the fault lies in the parents, itis now their responsibilty to fix it as individuals in their own homes.
    Note to self: Kindle keyboard sucks to type on.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post

    Now, how about you? How have you criticized EU lately?
    He does, and has done it recently here:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-u...post1061050773
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Performance in what? What measures are you using to assess the success or otherwise of educational systems? If their courses were harder than most, then you might expect to see lower marks and grades.
    In what data set?
    I am talking about the PISA survey. France is not doing better than US or Norway. Actually if I remember correctly. France has higher educational inequality than the US.

    Can you show me where France appears on 'the curve'? I understand you're referring to my reference to diminishing returns, but I'm not aware of French schoolkids having appeared on any graph. If you have, please share this. It would be interesting and perhaps convincing proof of your contention that French kids aren't working hard enough.
    Sure I can do that. Let's say 100 is full learning speed. And this is how much you learn per hour on average.

    0H: 100
    10H: 90
    20H: 80
    30H: 70
    40H: 60
    50H: 50
    60H: 40
    70H: 30

    I will assume an average french student does 5 hours of homework each week. Although, I haven't taken it into account, but homework also helps students become more independent. Your boss or teacher are not always going to be around.

    France is nowhere close to the plateau where reducing study time will improve performance. They are on the left side of the curve.

    Last edited by Camlon; 10-22-12 at 10:12 AM.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    He does, and has done it recently here:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-u...post1061050773
    Well, that is not very impressive as everyone would agree that EU has given membership to too many countries. Although in the case of southern Europe PeteEU claims there is no way the EU could have known that the Greeks could not be trusted.

    I am thinking about cases where not everyone would agree.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I am talking about the PISA survey. France is not doing better than US or Norway. Actually if I remember correctly. France has higher educational inequality than the US.


    Sure I can do that. Let's say 100 is full learning speed. And this is how much you learn per hour on average.

    0H: 100
    10H: 90
    20H: 80
    30H: 70
    40H: 60
    50H: 50
    60H: 40
    70H: 30

    I will assume an average french student does 5 hours of homework each week. Although, I haven't taken it into account, but homework also helps students become more independent. Your boss or teacher are not always going to be around.

    France is nowhere close to the plateau where reducing study time will improve performance. They are on the left side of the curve.

    Very interesting! I shall have a good look at all this stuff. Just a couple of things:

    1. I can see PISA is useful for assessing a basic level of educational achievement of various systems, but it seems rather limited in scope. It only looks at 15-year-olds, so we're only dealing with basic ed, no info on further- and higher-education. It also only deals in three subjects, one of which, reading is only one aspect of language ability; writing, listening comprehension and verbal ability should also be tested, no? So, very useful but not really a tool that gives us a clear picture of succeeding and failing systems, except within its own parameters.

    2. What is the source of the graph? I'd like to check out that site. Looks very interesting, but what strikes me is that the peak of the parabola is at around 50+ hours per week of study. Is that graph appropriate for all ages of children? For certain grades? Or for adult/undergraduate students at 18+? It would surprise me greatly it 50+ hours a week of study for an 8-year-old would bring his/her optimal performance.

    I'm not trying to catch you out or denigrate your sources, I'm just interested.
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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Well, that is not very impressive as everyone would agree that EU has given membership to too many countries. Although in the case of southern Europe PeteEU claims there is no way the EU could have known that the Greeks could not be trusted.

    I am thinking about cases where not everyone would agree.
    That seems to be a little bit of nit-picking. I can't really help further because in the example I cited, I don't agree with him.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    1. I can see PISA is useful for assessing a basic level of educational achievement of various systems, but it seems rather limited in scope. It only looks at 15-year-olds, so we're only dealing with basic ed, no info on further- and higher-education. It also only deals in three subjects, one of which, reading is only one aspect of language ability; writing, listening comprehension and verbal ability should also be tested, no? So, very useful but not really a tool that gives us a clear picture of succeeding and failing systems, except within its own parameters.
    You are right that PISA is not perfect, but I think it is the best we got to evaluate education systems. Other indicators that tend to be used are number of years attended at school, and graduation rates. I feel PISA beat them at least. There are no international survey that measures educational performance for adults, and it would say very little about the educational system, because the education system changes over time and there are other important factors like culture.


    2. What is the source of the graph? I'd like to check out that site. Looks very interesting, but what strikes me is that the peak of the parabola is at around 50+ hours per week of study. Is that graph appropriate for all ages of children? For certain grades? Or for adult/undergraduate students at 18+? It would surprise me greatly it 50+ hours a week of study for an 8-year-old would bring his/her optimal performance.
    Actually I created it.

    My assumptions were given in the previous post. I was mostly thinking about 15 year old students. 50+ hours sound about right as pupils who work insane hours like in China, do have better educational performance, but not by that much.

    But remember that from 40 to 50 hours, educational performance only increases by 4%. Working an extra 10 hours for 4% is not worth it. So it is good to limit the number of hours so students can enjoy themselves, but it is bad to limit it too much.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    He does, and has done it recently here:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/2012-u...post1061050773
    No, he hasn't.

    In fact he overstates Europe's involvement and completely ignores what the US did to fight Communism.

    Without America Communists would still be in power.

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    Re: French president pushing homework ban as part of ed reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    You are right that PISA is not perfect, but I think it is the best we got to evaluate education systems. Other indicators that tend to be used are number of years attended at school, and graduation rates. I feel PISA beat them at least. There are no international survey that measures educational performance for adults, and it would say very little about the educational system, because the education system changes over time and there are other important factors like culture.



    Actually I created it.

    My assumptions were given in the previous post. I was mostly thinking about 15 year old students. 50+ hours sound about right as pupils who work insane hours like in China, do have better educational performance, but not by that much.

    But remember that from 40 to 50 hours, educational performance only increases by 4%. Working an extra 10 hours for 4% is not worth it. So it is good to limit the number of hours so students can enjoy themselves, but it is bad to limit it too much.

    so you made that **** up
    you have no data to establish the graph
    very credible of you [/s]
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