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Thread: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

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    Re: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The "Constituents" decided that the government should put limits on their free speech? When was that?
    Input from the public in drafting the charter of rights and freedoms. We repatriated our constitution from the UK in 1982. Establishing the charter was part of that long and drawn out political and public process.
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

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    Re: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I guess I missed the part where he got deported from Germany. Perhaps you could point it out to me?
    I don't know about work permit laws in Germany.. Do you?

    In the US.. if your work visa expires you have to leave.. So much for your attempts at clever "gotcha".

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    Re: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    I don't know about work permit laws in Germany.. Do you?

    In the US.. if your work visa expires you have to leave.. So much for your attempts at clever "gotcha".
    You said he was deported. I asked for a link. Your link said NOTHING about any deportation.

    It's your fail...not mine. Care to just admit that you made it up, just to stir the pot?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonsa View Post
    Input from the public in drafting the charter of rights and freedoms. We repatriated our constitution from the UK in 1982. Establishing the charter was part of that long and drawn out political and public process.
    What "input from the public"?

    Trudeau forced all of that through and the result has been an unelected Supreme Court, appointed by the PM, that makes its decision on the fashion of the day, nor for the long term liberty and freedoms of Canadians. The 'notwithstanding clause' negates the entire thing anyway.

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    Re: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Habeus Corpus has been suspended? American citizens have been unlawfully detained? American citizens were spied on? Never knew any of that took place.

    What do you think The Patriot Act is?
    Sorry, suspension of Habeus corpus has been extended indefinitely as of Nov/11 in a provision of National Defence Authorization Act. It was first introduced in 2006.(Mea Culpa)

    Reform the Patriot Act - Surveillance, Privacy, and National Security Law Since 9/11 | American Civil Liberties Union

    Section 215 of the Patriot Act authorizes the government to obtain "any tangible thing" relevant to a terrorism investigation, even if there is no showing that the "thing" pertains to suspected terrorists or terrorist activities. This provision is contrary to traditional notions of search and seizure, which require the government to show reasonable suspicion or probable cause before undertaking an investigation that infringes upon a person's privacy. Congress must ensure that things collected with this power have a meaningful nexus to suspected terrorist activity or it should be allowed to expire.

    Section 206 of the Patriot Act, also known as "roving John Doe wiretap" provision, permits the government to obtain intelligence surveillance orders that identify neither the person nor the facility to be tapped. This provision is contrary to traditional notions of search and seizure, which require government to state with particularity what it seeks to search or seize. Section 206 should be amended to mirror similar and longstanding criminal laws that permit roving wiretaps, but require the naming of a specific target. Otherwise, it should expire.

    The bill also fails to amend other portions of the Patriot Act in dire need of reform, most notably those relating to the issuance and use of national security letters (NSLs). NSLs permit the government to obtain the communication, financial and credit records of anyone deemed relevant to a terrorism investigation even if that person is not suspected of unlawful behavior. Numerous Department of Justice Inspector General reports have confirmed that tens of thousands of these letters are issued every year and they are used to collect information on people two and three times removed from a terrorism suspect
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

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    Re: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What "input from the public"?

    Trudeau forced all of that through and the result has been an unelected Supreme Court, appointed by the PM, that makes its decision on the fashion of the day, nor for the long term liberty and freedoms of Canadians. The 'notwithstanding clause' negates the entire thing anyway.
    There were all kinds of public meetings on it. The supreme court should be unelected, its not a popularity contest, nor is the public suitably informed on legal expertise to make a suitable judgement of such impact.

    the notwithstanding clause can only render rights suspension temporarily (max five years) so that to renew any invocation of the clause must be put to the electorate.
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

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    Re: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonsa View Post
    There were all kinds of public meetings on it. The supreme court should be unelected, its not a popularity contest, nor is the public suitably informed on legal expertise to make a suitable judgement of such impact.
    There were public meetings on it but none had any impact. And if the Canadian public, or their elected representatives, are not smart enough to elect members to the Supreme Court then they are certainly not intelligent enough to speak on the design of a Constitution. All it did was allow the government to be the arbiter of the rights Canadians might have, rather than the restrictions placed on governments.

    The same holds true for the judges as it does to our unelected Senate, whose appointments by the PM of the day to party loyalists is often called the 40-year-orgasm.

    I believe in a triple E representative Senate, not the waste we have now.

    the notwithstanding clause can only render rights suspension temporarily (max five years) so that to renew any invocation of the clause must be put to the electorate.
    So the government can suspend the rights of Canadians only for a maximum of five years. Isn't that terrific!

    Suspending the rights of Canadians to a fair judicial hearing by the "Human Rights" Commissions certainly lasted much longer than five years.
    Last edited by Grant; 10-14-12 at 02:14 PM.

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    Re: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonsa View Post
    Sorry, suspension of Habeus corpus has been extended indefinitely as of Nov/11 in a provision of National Defence Authorization Act. It was first introduced in 2006.(Mea Culpa)

    Reform the Patriot Act - Surveillance, Privacy, and National Security Law Since 9/11 | American Civil Liberties Union

    Section 215 of the Patriot Act authorizes the government to obtain "any tangible thing" relevant to a terrorism investigation, even if there is no showing that the "thing" pertains to suspected terrorists or terrorist activities. This provision is contrary to traditional notions of search and seizure, which require the government to show reasonable suspicion or probable cause before undertaking an investigation that infringes upon a person's privacy. Congress must ensure that things collected with this power have a meaningful nexus to suspected terrorist activity or it should be allowed to expire.

    Section 206 of the Patriot Act, also known as "roving John Doe wiretap" provision, permits the government to obtain intelligence surveillance orders that identify neither the person nor the facility to be tapped. This provision is contrary to traditional notions of search and seizure, which require government to state with particularity what it seeks to search or seize. Section 206 should be amended to mirror similar and longstanding criminal laws that permit roving wiretaps, but require the naming of a specific target. Otherwise, it should expire.

    The bill also fails to amend other portions of the Patriot Act in dire need of reform, most notably those relating to the issuance and use of national security letters (NSLs). NSLs permit the government to obtain the communication, financial and credit records of anyone deemed relevant to a terrorism investigation even if that person is not suspected of unlawful behavior. Numerous Department of Justice Inspector General reports have confirmed that tens of thousands of these letters are issued every year and they are used to collect information on people two and three times removed from a terrorism suspect
    This part,

    terrorism investigation
    purdy much kills your argument.

    It might do more your credibility to post the actual text of the act, vice the ACLU's interpretation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

    [QUOTE=Grant;1061020554]

    There were public meetings on it but none had any impact. And if the Canadian public, or their elected representatives, are not smart enough to elect members to the Supreme Court then they are certainly not intelligent enough to speak on the design of a Constitution. All it did was allow the government to be the arbiter of the rights Canadians might have, rather than the restrictions placed on governments.

    The same holds true for the judges as it does to our unelected Senate, whose appointments by the PM of the day to party loyalists is often called the 40-year-orgasm.

    I believe in a triple E representative Senate, not the waste we have now.
    As far as the senate is concerned I totally agree. Its a farce.

    As for the public meetings how do you know it had no impact? There were literally hundreds of briefs from highly qualified citizens.

    I see your point vis a vis electing SC judges, but the average canadian voter is NOT qualified either to determine the best judicial candidate, nor what our constitution should contain.




    So the government can suspend the rights of Canadians only for a maximum of five years. Isn't that terrific!

    Suspending the rights of Canadians to a fair judicial hearing by the "Human Rights" Commissions certainly lasted much longer than five years.
    Firstly, we both know why the notwithstanding clause was inserted.

    Secondly, the HRC is a quasi-legal agency of political correctness that should be immediately scrapped. We have suitable laws in place already, and we don't need the dinks appointed as commissioners running around in self righteous indignation over free speech.
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

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    Re: Quran Burning Pastor Barred From Entry Into Canada [W:73]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    This part,



    purdy much kills your argument.

    It might do more your credibility to post the actual text of the act, vice the ACLU's interpretation.
    I have read the text. Its conveniently on the ACLU site. Maybe you should read it.

    Are you saying that a terrorism investigation trumps civil rights?
    Are you agreeing that NSL's by the thousands are not an invasion of a citizens right to privacy when they are twice removed from a suspect?
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

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