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Thread: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    The ADA needs to be changed. If the act is really about disabled access, and nothing else, then...

    1) All complaints must first be processed through the local building compliance department,
    2) IF deemed legit, upon notification, the building/business owner has a reasonable time, 6-12 months depending on the magnitude of the upgrades, to bring the premises up to code,
    3) Once upgrades are complete and approved by said local building compliance department, the complaint is permanently dismissed,
    4) If the building/business owner does not bring the property up to code, then and only then, would the plaintiff be allowed to sue for damages.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    What else we're losing...

    ...as the small guy loses again, we move closer to a society where only corporate McDonaldism completely takes over because the large corporations will be the only ones who can afford to absorb crap like this.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire X View Post
    Care to explain why plenty of small businesses are perfectly fine with complying with a 20+ year old piece of legislation, but this one can't afford to?
    Are you serious? There are plenty of reasons why that may be. Maybe their buildings are newer, and were built with different, more current standards in mind. Even if not, some renovations require less construction and redesign than others. It totally depends on what the violation is, and how difficult and expensive it is to fix. Plus, not all businesses make the same amount of money, dude. Not all small business owners are rich; some are barely able to make ends meet and squeak out a reasonably comfortable living. This was a hamburger stand, not a doctors office

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    I live close to Sacramento, and this was sad news when it broke a few weeks ago. With the downturn in economy, lower revenues overall, then this sudden lawsuit costing tens of thousands of dollars to defend and more tens of thousands of dollars to comply, the family-owned restaurant simply could not survive. It closed its doors.

    To those who smugly grin, "good, now they know how it feels to be excluded", a pox on you. Now they, like millions of other economically devastated Americans, know what it feels like to have lost everything they've worked their entire lives for to a shyster scam-artist who makes a living extorting small businesses based on ill-written, poorly executed laws. You must be so thrilled. Yay, you.

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Good question, these buildings were in Julian an historic town. All the Julian shop owners fought it like hill, they all wanted to keep the buildings completely original. The San Diego attorney was suing them for no handicapped access. So he went to them and said pay me XX dollars and I will not sue you. If you don't pay I will sue you and win and you will make the modifications and you will pay me my attorneys fees. Making them potentially liable for $125,000 in attorney fees, payable to Pinnock of course. The **** was a real hardass.
    Why would the judge awards attorneys fees in a case like this?

    There was no contract between the property owner and the attorney to cover his fees so I don't see why they would be responsible for them.

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by NitroHangover View Post
    Are you serious? There are plenty of reasons why that may be. Maybe their buildings are newer, and were built with different, more current standards in mind. Even if not, some renovations require less construction and redesign than others. It totally depends on what the violation is, and how difficult and expensive it is to fix. Plus, not all businesses make the same amount of money, dude. Not all small business owners are rich; some are barely able to make ends meet and squeak out a reasonably comfortable living. This was a hamburger stand, not a doctors office
    Handicapped people have a right to a high standard of living, too.

    Your same argument about businesses not being able to afford to comply with regulations could be applied to other types of regulations, too. What if a burger stand couldn't afford to meet health standards? Would that make it okay for them to serve contaminated beef, for instance? It's not their fault they can't afford to ensure their product meets government health requirements!

    The point is that businesses are required to comply with the law. It doesn't matter if the building is old or new, the law applies to all businesses equally. Sure, it might cost more in old buildings, but that's an irrelevant argument. If businesses are struggling because they can't meet required provisions for handicapped people, they should protest against the law itself, rather than cry about it when it's enforced.

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire X View Post
    Handicapped people have a right to a high standard of living, too.
    I fail to see how not being able to use the bathroom at a scant handful of places (what, maybe 1 out of 1000 businesses?) tarnishes their "standard of living" in any significant way. If it's a huge problem for them for some bizarre reason, they can go someplace else and eat. Hell, if I went to Ford's and the bathroom was unavailable to me for whatever reason, I'd be an adult and deal with it. My solution would not be to hire lawyers and strong-arm the business out of thousands and thousands of dollars, and in this case, drive them out of business altogether and their employees out of work.
    Your same argument about businesses not being able to afford to comply with regulations could be applied to other types of regulations, too. What if a burger stand couldn't afford to meet health standards? Would that make it okay for them to serve contaminated beef, for instance? It's not their fault they can't afford to ensure their product meets government health requirements!
    Dude, cut the ****. You KNOW that doesn't compare. Health codes exist so that restaurants don't accidentally KILL masses of people. Not so that one out of ten thousand customers never has to go next door and use the bathroom in an emergency
    The point is that businesses are required to comply with the law. It doesn't matter if the building is old or new, the law applies to all businesses equally. Sure, it might cost more in old buildings, but that's an irrelevant argument. If businesses are struggling because they can't meet required provisions for handicapped people, they should protest against the law itself, rather than cry about it when it's enforced.
    Of course it matters, in the discussion we were just having. You asked if someone could explain why THIS business can't afford to comply with codes, while many others have no problems doing so, so I explained it! Again, it's not like the situations are the same for all businesses. You're not taking anything into consideration here. You would seriously rather have the company go out of business and put everyone on unemployment than allow them to operate without a bathroom big enough for a wheelchair? Because that's what's happening! Think about how insane that is for a second.

    And by the way, many of these companies HAVE banded together to fight the law and fight these lawsuits, and many have won. Others who are poorer can't afford to go to all the legal trouble, so they have no choice but to shut down their entire livelihood. This story isn't even about the law being enforced. It's about the threat of costing people hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees if they don't pay some crook a bunch of money. Get a clue.

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Does anybody really think that this particular story is about equal access? Seriously?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki97 View Post
    The ADA was passed in 1990. If we are to believe the owner of the establishment did not have the funds to bring his restroom into compliance in a span of 22 years, it sounds like the business wasn't going to be around long anyway.
    First off that burger joint was there decades before the ADA was passed.

    Second its a mom and pop place with a STELLER reputation. It was one of the best eating establishments Sac. had.

    Thirdly the rules and regulations are changed routinely every year or two. The rules he violated were so fricken small as to be incomprehensable. The wheel chair ramp was in compliance till THIS year when it changed. His ramp was off only by a quarter inch. His mirrors in the bathroom with a 1/2 inch to high. Should anybody be shut let alone sued for that? Would you want to be sued for that? Do you know how much it costs to rip out and replace concrete? It aint cheap. Its not like he made NO concesions at all. The rules and the bar were being moved on him.

    This was a bogus bull**** lawsuit pure and simple.
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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    The sad part is this is not about Federal law, and the regulators. While I do not like government, in this case they would not have sued and most likely would have given him plenty of time to get things fixed up. The problem in this case is California law. I think Connery can probably expand on my thesis a bit more with details, but the bottom line is this, California law is different from federal law in that you can sue for damages on an ADA lawsuit. Thats how he is able do get away with this extortion. If a goverment agency came in all they would have done is say the next time he renovates bring it to code. The lawsuit only mentioned VERY VERY minor details of noncompliance, all of which were results of NEW regulations coming into effect. The sad thing is regulations are exempt as far as I can tell from the ex post facto section of the Cailfornia constitution and the United States Constitution. If a lawyer knows something more about that, I would love to be enlightend The two issues that spring to mind were a 1/4 inch per foot to high wheelchair ramps from the parking area. And the Mirrors in the bathroom were a half inch too high. This was essentially the lawsuit. If that went before a jury would you have voted for the plaintif. It saddens me that a lawer from the area didnt take the case probono and kicked the crap out of this jackass.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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