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Thread: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I see; I give you the actual law, instead of your "guidelines," and your response is "nuh-uh." You responded to it within a minute, so I doubt very much you even read the post.


    I read the actual law. I posted it.

    ADA Accessibility Guidelines

    Guidelines for buildings and facilities

    ADA Accessibility Guidelines

    4.14 Entrances.

    4.14.1 Minimum Number. Entrances required to be accessible by 4.1 shall be part of an accessible route complying with 4.3. Such entrances shall be connected by an accessible route to public transportation stops, to accessible parking and passenger loading zones, and to public streets or sidewalks if available (see 4.3.2(1)). They shall also be connected by an accessible route to all accessible spaces or elements within the building or facility.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    There's something undefensible in using yourself as a source. how about a link?
    My source for the quoted text was your prior link. As I said, Section 1 of the same document that you had quoted in your own post.

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    From the article

    . . .

    Ford’s Real Hamburgers has been slinging burgers, fries and shakes for years, but was hit hard in the recession. Now, KTXL-TV is reporting that a local attorney who makes his living filing ADA cases — many on his own behalf — is suing the restaurant — and Ford‘s can’t keep up.

    “We scrimped and saved and cut down the staff. I’m down to six employees,” owner Hank Vereschzagin told KTXL.

    As the station noted, Ford’s is indeed out of ADA compliance: There isn’t enough room to roll into the bathroom in a wheelchair. But Vereschzagin said he just doesn’t have the money to fix the more than 60-year-old building.

    . . .
    This guys was in financial trouble to begin with. And there are clear violations to a law that has been in effect for 22 years. You make your money serving the public, you serve them all.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    My source for the quoted text was your prior link. As I said, Section 1 of the same document that you had quoted in your own post.


    Then make it relevant to the story. You're just picking to fight a strawman and it ain't gonna happen.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    I read the actual law. I posted it.

    ADA Accessibility Guidelines

    Guidelines for buildings and facilities

    ADA Accessibility Guidelines
    No you didn't. You posted a summary, the "guidelines." I linked to the actual law, above, and quoted from it.

    That you don't know the difference explains MUCH.

    Why don't you go into the actual law and show where buildings existing and not being altered prior to July 1992 are covered, except as how I noted? If you want to make your case, it's what's you need to do.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    'A decades-old Sacramento, Calif. burger joint is shutting its doors for being out of compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act because the owner says he can’t afford to bring it up to code.

    Ford’s Real Hamburgers has been slinging burgers, fries and shakes for years, but was hit hard in the recession. Now, KTXL-TV is reporting that a local attorney who makes his living filing ADA cases — many on his own behalf — is suing the restaurant — and Ford‘s can’t keep up.'

    Sacramento California Landmark Ford’s Real Hamburgers Forced to Shut Down Over ADA Lawsuit | Video | TheBlaze.com
    Lawyers like that scumbag are why I say that if the New testament was written today Mathew would have been a former greedy lawyer instead of a former corrupt tax collector. If I was a the burger joint owner I would post a sign with the picture of that rat lawyer that says my place is closing down because of him.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No you didn't. You posted a summary, the "guidelines." I linked to the actual law, above, and quoted from it.

    That you don't know the difference explains MUCH.

    Why don't you go into the actual law and show where buildings existing and not being altered prior to July 1992 are covered, except as how I noted? If you want to make your case, it's what's you need to do.

    Accessibility guidelines from the ADA are what is pertinent to this story. You want to discuss the ACT, we can.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Accessibility guidelines from the ADA are what is pertinent to this story. You want to discuss the ACT, we can.
    That's just plain stupid.

    The law is what is operative (or "pertinent"), not "guidelines." One is not sued over "guidelines," they're sued according the law. One is not beholden to "guidelines"; one is beholden to the law.

    I guess you really DON'T know the difference. This is ridiculously idiotic.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Then make it relevant to the story. You're just picking to fight a strawman and it ain't gonna happen.
    Section 1 is relevant to this particular case because I have not seen any evidence that the owner has, in the last 22 years done additional construction or renovation to the building. Until that occurs, the building is grandfathered in because it was in place "as-is" prior to the ADA statute going into effect.

    Since the building is not owned or operated by a governmental agency, there is no requirement to retrofit the building unless it is being otherwise renovated. I happen to live in a part of the country where a good number of our buildings were built prior to the Civil War, nevermind 1990. Many of them house private business', and it's probably about 50/50 whether they've been made handicapped accessible in the last two decades.

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    Re: Landmark calif. Burger joint forced to shut down over ada lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    What you're missing is the actual text of the law.

    The only part of the ADA applicable to facilities in place and not altered before July 1992 has to do with "failure to remove":



    But as noted, only if it's "readily achievable."

    What's "readily achievable"? That, too, is defined within the law.



    In this case, given the criteria, it appears that the accommodation may indeed NOT be "readily achievable," but it also appears that the owner doesn't have the resources to fight the lawsuit.
    Show me where you are getting the facilities "failure to remove" and how this affects the rights of the disabled to access public places
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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