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Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

apdst said:
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I offered my opinion; you ask for substance supporting my opinion and I gave it to you.

You've heard what you've heard and I've heard what I've heared.
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I agree and neither one of these jamokes has been very convincing.
 
Connery said:
I agree and neither one of these jamokes has been very convincing.
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I'm convinced that Obama will do more harm to the country than Romney will.
 
apdst said:
I'm convinced that Obama will do more harm to the country than Romney will.
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Perhaps I see the first responders that he let go when his "tightened their belt of Massachusetts. It was mayhem and confusion.. .
 
Connery said:
Perhaps I see the first responders that he let go when his "tightened their belt of Massachusetts. It was mayhem and confusion.. .
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I see all the people in the oil and gas industry that were harmed by the drilling ban. I'm just glad they didn't put that stupid lizard on the endangered species list.
 
clownboy said:
Fair enough, and FWIW your system isn't bad in my book. However, what's your actual paid participation rate? What percentage of your population isn't paying taxes that support that system? You see, when the system grows to a point where only a small percentage of the whole actually pay enough into it for it to operate effectively, things start to break down. Costs remain high.

That should answer your post below as well. The insured don't just pay for themselves, but the uninsured as well.
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Each provincial plan is partially funded thru federal transfer payments, general provincial revenues, employer's payroll healthcare tax (small business exempt), and for everyone earning over $20K a regressive tax from $60/yr to top rate on 200K of $900.

It should be noted that dental, all elective cosmetic/bariatric surgery, chiropracters, private room care, and prescription drugs are not covered. there are private plans that cover these areas often as part of a group coverage bennie from employers. If a patient is unable to pay for drugs, there's a special program for them.

*small biz defined as under 100 employees, under $5 million.

So sources of funds are diverse. There is an awareness that things will need to be tweaked, but it is generally not anticipated that anything radical will be required.
 
I said, "BJ Clinton was impeached for lying under oath.
He had the good fortune of Republicans in the legislature who reigned him in."
To which you replied,

rocket88 said:
What,is it with all the paid advertsising for the GOP these days? You don't even try to use your brain, you just regurgitate....
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Which fact were you objecting to?
1) BJ Clinton was impeached for lying under oath
Bill Clinton, 42nd President of the United States, was impeached by the House of Representatives on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice, on December 19, 1998. [/quote]
Impeachment of Bill Clinton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2) He, Clinton, had the good fortune of Republicans in the legislature who reigned him in
Bill Clinton was the 42nd president of the united states. This period was 1993 through to 2001. Apart from 1993 to 1995 which was controlled by the democrats, the republicans controlled the house and senate till 2001.​
What political party controlled the house and senate during the Clinton years

Why do you object to simple facts?​
 
Somerville said:
You were the one with the absolutist statement. I merely asked a question and you responded with a personal attack simply because you had not fully thought through your first post. And you continue with personal attacks in place of recognizing that statements such as you made in this thread are fine examples of how one's words may be misused by political opponents - something we see with Republican attacks on the President's words.
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We both know what you did. And we both know why you did it. You cannot escape yourself. I, on the other hand, can escape people with attitudes such as yours whenever I choose. You have chosen socialism. I have chosen freedom and liberty.
 
Jonsa said:
Not so. By your measure we here in Canada are extreme socialists. But, we manage to control the size of our government, provide a strong social safety net, and rank up near the top of the list in quality of life, quality of opportunity, best placed to do business, etc. And we have single payer healthcare AND strictly enforced financial regulations that helped us avoid the worst of your financial calamities. Americans absolutely gag at the total tax burden on canadians (tax freedom day is mid june)but to the majority of us, it simply is what it is.
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Your tale reminds me of the story of the man who, while viewing the skyline, from the top of the Empire State building, was blown over the side and began his plummet to the ground. As he was passing the 50th floor someone yelled out to him, "How are you doing?" The man replied, "So far, so good."

Eventually you will hit the ground because eventually the makers will grow weary of supporting their Taker extended family. Socialists always run out of other people's money.
 
Objective Voice said:
You'd have to prove that money laundering did, in fact, occur based on bundled campaign contributions to Obama's presidential campaign. Without proof, all you have is speculation and wild accusations. I'd suggest you start another thread on the matter, present your evidence or at the very least plead your case there. Otherwise, let's not try to deflect and hijack the thread.
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I see. So what part of this story do you object to? The one term Marxist received money in the form of campaign contributions from bundlers. He won the election. He caused the government to give billions of dollars to his bundlers (have you heard of Solyndra, as an example?). His bundlers enriched themselves and gave more campaign contributions to the one term Marxist and his fellow travelers in the Democratic party. Solyndra, and other bundler green-exercises-in fairytale making went bankrupt.
 
Misterveritis said:
I said, "BJ Clinton was impeached for lying under oath.
He had the good fortune of Republicans in the legislature who reigned him in."
To which you replied,



Which fact were you objecting to?
1) BJ Clinton was impeached for lying under oath
Bill Clinton, 42nd President of the United States, was impeached by the House of Representatives on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice, on December 19, 1998.​
Click to expand...

Impeachment of Bill Clinton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2) He, Clinton, had the good fortune of Republicans in the legislature who reigned him in
Bill Clinton was the 42nd president of the united states. This period was 1993 through to 2001. Apart from 1993 to 1995 which was controlled by the democrats, the republicans controlled the house and senate till 2001.​
What political party controlled the house and senate during the Clinton years

Why do you object to simple facts?[/QUOTE]

It wasn't all Republicans. If it was we'd be living in utopia after 6 years of all Republicans. You're too partisan, and lack the simplest critical reasoning skills.​
 
I wrote, "Why do you object to simple facts?"
rocket88 said:
It wasn't all Republicans. If it was we'd be living in utopia after 6 years of all Republicans. You're too partisan, and lack the simplest critical reasoning skills.
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I am sorry. I didn't mean to put you in a corner so you would have to say, "I've got nothing."
 
Misterveritis said:
I wrote, "Why do you object to simple facts?"

I am sorry. I didn't mean to put you in a corner so you would have to say, "I've got nothing."
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I object to your BS interpretation of them. I am sorry if it requires too much thought to see past party.
 
Misterveritis said:
Your tale reminds me of the story of the man who, while viewing the skyline, from the top of the Empire State building, was blown over the side and began his plummet to the ground. As he was passing the 50th floor someone yelled out to him, "How are you doing?" The man replied, "So far, so good."

Eventually you will hit the ground because eventually the makers will grow weary of supporting their Taker extended family. Socialists always run out of other people's money.
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No, that is not the way things work here.

Firstly, the "makers" as you call them are in the majority in this country. As they are in yours, except for some strange reason the right thinks that anyone and everyone on welfare, food stamps etc., are moochers and leeches.

Secondly, Canadians believe that there are those that are in need and require assistance. We don't begrudge them, we help them. In ontario, those who are welfare and deemed able to work must do unpaid community work as well as look for employment. There are programs that attempt to eliminate welfare fraud that are reasonably effective, but if want to find some "welfare queens" in the system its not all that hard. Since we are a fairly pragmatic people, we don't condemn the entire system because a very small percentage abuse it. there is no complex system of social organization that is perfect, the question is how effective is it.

Thirdly, we believe that access to healthcare is a right of citizenship. We do not believe that provision of healthcare should be a profit making venture. We spread the cost contributions amongst a strong partnership between the federal, provincial, local governments, medium to large business and employed citizens.

Fourthly, we don't consider it "other peoples money", we consider it Canadian's money. Each citizen contributes based on their ability to pay. Each business contributes on their ability to pay. If that means an individual must take home 3 or 5% less or a business must pay 5% more, we do it - we may bitch a bit, but we do it, because we beleive that we are all responsible for building and maintaining our quality of life.

We ain't perfect, and we don't have all the answers, but we do have a certain stoic attitude that seems entirely at odds with many americans.
 
Misterveritis said:
I see. So what part of this story do you object to? The one term Marxist received money in the form of campaign contributions from bundlers. He won the election. He caused the government to give billions of dollars to his bundlers (have you heard of Solyndra, as an example?). His bundlers enriched themselves and gave more campaign contributions to the one term Marxist and his fellow travelers in the Democratic party. Solyndra, and other bundler green-exercises-in fairytale making went bankrupt.
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He didn't "cause" it; the types of loan guarantees you're complaining about that went to alternative energy companies and/or new technologies in the auto industry (even if it meant attempts to start new automakers) were a continuation of programs originated from the GW Bush Administration. Moreover, the argument you're attempting to make where the Administration alledgedly did "favors" for their wealthy donors is nothing more than repeated actions from previous presidencies. Not condoning the behavior; just saying this is nothing new. Personnally, I'd like to see major changes in campaign finance, as well as the reversal of Citizen's United, but I seriously doubt either will happen any time soon. But to your direct accusation of illegal use of bundled campaign contributions to the President, Committee's held their investigations, had their hearings and found no evidence to support your claim. I say time to move on from attempting to continue such slander.
 
Jonsa said:
No, that is not the way things work here.

Firstly, the "makers" as you call them are in the majority in this country. As they are in yours, except for some strange reason the right thinks that anyone and everyone on welfare, food stamps etc., are moochers and leeches.

Secondly, Canadians believe that there are those that are in need and require assistance. We don't begrudge them, we help them. In ontario, those who are welfare and deemed able to work must do unpaid community work as well as look for employment. There are programs that attempt to eliminate welfare fraud that are reasonably effective, but if want to find some "welfare queens" in the system its not all that hard. Since we are a fairly pragmatic people, we don't condemn the entire system because a very small percentage abuse it. there is no complex system of social organization that is perfect, the question is how effective is it.

Thirdly, we believe that access to healthcare is a right of citizenship. We do not believe that provision of healthcare should be a profit making venture. We spread the cost contributions amongst a strong partnership between the federal, provincial, local governments, medium to large business and employed citizens.

Fourthly, we don't consider it "other peoples money", we consider it Canadian's money. Each citizen contributes based on their ability to pay. Each business contributes on their ability to pay. If that means an individual must take home 3 or 5% less or a business must pay 5% more, we do it - we may bitch a bit, but we do it, because we beleive that we are all responsible for building and maintaining our quality of life.

We ain't perfect, and we don't have all the answers, but we do have a certain stoic attitude that seems entirely at odds with many americans.
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The bolded parts identify Canada, from your perspective, as a Marxist/socialist state. They always fail. Radical Karl described your beliefs a bit better. "From each according to his abilities, To each according to his need."
That stoicism you see...are you so certain it is not resignation?
 
Objective Voice said:
He didn't "cause" it; the types of loan guarantees you're complaining about that went to alternative energy companies and/or new technologies in the auto industry (even if it meant attempts to start new automakers) were a continuation of programs originated from the GW Bush Administration. Moreover, the argument you're attempting to make where the Administration alledgedly did "favors" for their wealthy donors is nothing more than repeated actions from previous presidencies. Not condoning the behavior; just saying this is nothing new. Personnally, I'd like to see major changes in campaign finance, as well as the reversal of Citizen's United, but I seriously doubt either will happen any time soon. But to your direct accusation of illegal use of bundled campaign contributions to the President, Committee's held their investigations, had their hearings and found no evidence to support your claim. I say time to move on from attempting to continue such slander.
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I suppose to the typical Obama-drone it is just a coincidence that the Obama-bundlers received vast sums of taxpayer money, gave Obama and the democratic party huge campaign contributions and then saw their green companies go bankrupt while the bundlers became millionaires.

Yeah. I believe Obama is a crook in addition be being a Marxist. After President Romney takes office and the Senate reverts to Republican control we can hold hearings and begin to put all the crooks into jail where they belong.
 
Misterveritis said:
The bolded parts identify Canada, from your perspective, as a Marxist/socialist state. They always fail. Radical Karl described your beliefs a bit better. "From each according to his abilities, To each according to his need."
That stoicism you see...are you so certain it is not resignation?
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Sorry man, but you obviously have absolutely no idea was a marxist state is all about. Yes, we have socialism - as a matter of fact you have exactly the same kinds of socialism that we do..


You have welfare - we have welfare
You have food stamps - we have welfare allowance
You have unemployment insurance - we have unemployment insurance
You have single payer healthcare for veterans - we have single payer healthcare for all
You have social insurance - we have social insurance
You have farm subsidies to lower food costs - we have farm subsidies to do the same
You have industrial subsidies to encourage certain corporate behaviours - we have industrial subsidies to do the same.

You have bloc transfers of federal $ to states - we have transfer payments of federal $ to provinces
(America's fiscal union: The red and the black | The Economist)

Near as I can figure, the US has been a socialist state for decades under both republican and democratic regimes.
And yes, it sure as hell ain't resignation - we are damn proud of our county and our social compact.

Can't understand why americans like you aren't proud of your social compact since its been an integral part of your economic structure for at least 50 years.

Maybe you should stop thinking that those in need are leeches and start thinking that they are fellow citizens who need a helping hand. Just like you and yours, they are part of the fabric of your culture and nation. Indeed, for the party who beleives God is on their side, it seems there's a lot of republicans who reject christian teachings in favour of greed and prejudice = Most unchristian.
 
Misterveritis said:
I suppose to the typical Obama-drone it is just a coincidence that the Obama-bundlers received vast sums of taxpayer money, gave Obama and the democratic party huge campaign contributions and then saw their green companies go bankrupt while the bundlers became millionaires.

Yeah. I believe Obama is a crook in addition be being a Marxist. After President Romney takes office and the Senate reverts to Republican control we can hold hearings and begin to put all the crooks into jail where they belong.
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does da name Halliburton ring a bell. If you think that republican excrement don't stink just as much a democratic excrement, then you were blind from 2000 to 2008. (id' go back further, but not sure if you were politically/economically aware back in the day).
 
Jonsa said:
Sorry man, but you obviously have absolutely no idea was a marxist state is all about. Yes, we have socialism - as a matter of fact you have exactly the same kinds of socialism that we do..
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It is an easy statement but a wrong one. When your state takes its central tenets, as explained by you, to be a core belief of Radical Karl himself then yours is a Marxist state. You may not yet experience all of the ill effects of Marxism but they are coming, to Canada as they will come to us in the United States.

You have welfare - we have welfare
You have food stamps - we have welfare allowance
You have unemployment insurance - we have unemployment insurance
You have single payer healthcare for veterans - we have single payer healthcare for all
You have social insurance - we have social insurance
You have farm subsidies to lower food costs - we have farm subsidies to do the same
You have industrial subsidies to encourage certain corporate behaviours - we have industrial subsidies to do the same.

You have bloc transfers of federal $ to states - we have transfer payments of federal $ to provinces
(America's fiscal union: The red and the black | The Economist)

Near as I can figure, the US has been a socialist state for decades under both republican and democratic regimes.
Click to expand...
Do you think I disagree? We have been slowly moving away from the Constitution and toward Marxist European socialism. As have you.
And yes, it sure as hell ain't resignation - we are damn proud of our county and our social compact.
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In the end you will suffer the same fate no matter how proud of your socialism you are today. I believe it is inevitable.

Can't understand why americans like you aren't proud of your social compact since its been an integral part of your economic structure for at least 50 years.
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Those who prefer to be subjects are no doubt pleased with the level of tyranny we have today and would prefer far more in the future. They are children, fools, and knaves. Those of us who are citizens prefer liberty to slavery.

Maybe you should stop thinking that those in need are leeches and start thinking that they are fellow citizens who need a helping hand. Just like you and yours, they are part of the fabric of your culture and nation. Indeed, for the party who beleives God is on their side, it seems there's a lot of republicans who reject christian teachings in favour of greed and prejudice = Most unchristian.
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The poor need jobs. They do not need maternalistic government. They need the dignity of standing on their own rather than crouching and kissing the hand that feeds them in return for their vote.

I cannot speak for Christians. I can speak to your error. You believe that choosing for oneself is greed. I suspect it is because you have no idea what freedom is like. Your way leads to the most awful consequences.
 
Jonsa said:
does da name Halliburton ring a bell. If you think that republican excrement don't stink just as much a democratic excrement, then you were blind from 2000 to 2008. (id' go back further, but not sure if you were politically/economically aware back in the day).
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Are you familiar with Pavlov's experiments?
What other firms were able to provide the services that Haliburton provided?
I have been aware for roughly 40 of my 59 years. And you?
 
Misterveritis said:
It is an easy statement but a wrong one. When your state takes its central tenets, as explained by you, to be a core belief of Radical Karl himself then yours is a Marxist state. You may not yet experience all of the ill effects of Marxism but they are coming, to Canada as they will come to us in the United States.
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Plainly do not know what a marxist state is. ONE of our central tenets is a variation on Marx. to extrapolate that social compact into a marxist future is spurious, ungrounded in fact, and ignores our history. But then again, I shouldn't expect an American to have a clue about our history and the foundation and pillars of our society.

Do you think I disagree? We have been slowly moving away from the Constitution and toward Marxist European socialism. As have you.
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Sorry man, you are talking out of your hat.


In the end you will suffer the same fate no matter how proud of your socialism you are today. I believe it is inevitable.
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Well then I suggest you buy a passel of credit default swaps and as any good capitalist you can make a killing when the time comes for america.,


Those who prefer to be subjects are no doubt pleased with the level of tyranny we have today and would prefer far more in the future. They are children, fools, and knaves. Those of us who are citizens prefer liberty to slavery.
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Sigh, more empty rhetoric devoid of meaning but sounding lofty enough to convince the uneducated and uninformed. Of course, you would have quite the handle on children, fools and knaves, so I won't debate your little character assassination attempt.

The poor need jobs. They do not need maternalistic government. They need the dignity of standing on their own rather than crouching and kissing the hand that feeds them in return for their vote.
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And where are these jobs going to suddenly appear from? I beleive that the vast majority of those on welfare and food stamps crave the dignity and positive outlook a decent job provides, not to mention the paycheck to support their families. this seems to be the differnce between you and I. You think all those people are lazy welfare queens, while I think of them as temporarily "inconvenienced". You condemn the whole barrel of apples for the few bad ones found in it.


I cannot speak for Christians. I can speak to your error. You believe that choosing for oneself is greed. I suspect it is because you have no idea what freedom is like. Your way leads to the most awful consequences.
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Interesting that you have no concept of what I'm actually talking about. I didn't imply that "choosing for oneself is greed". I stated quite clearly state that those that think as you do are motivated by greed and prejudice and (i'll add this one now) conceit.

the Canadian way will not lead to awful consequences. It will lead to continued prosperity and strengthening of our social vision and cultural evolution.
 
Misterveritis said:
Are you familiar with Pavlov's experiments?
What other firms were able to provide the services that Haliburton provided?
I have been aware for roughly 40 of my 59 years. And you?
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Pavlov and his cute little doggies. I regret I cannot link to your implication here.
You mean what other firms could offer privitization of warfare services? Or is logisitic services? or a few billion in overbilling services? or build temporary housing that electrocutes shower takers? or multiple instances of rape and abuse of female contractors? there were a ton of other companies. But if you recall at the time, the whole Iraqi shebang was going to be paid for by Iraqi oil - how many US companies got oil contracts after the "end of hostilities"? Cheney's nose grew from washington to LA on that little fiction.

We are contemporaries. Hitting the big six oh in may.
so you are aware of the continuing saga of corruption at the highest levels and the plausible deniability that obfuscates matters.
 
Jonsa said:
Plainly do not know what a marxist state is. ONE of our central tenets is a variation on Marx. to extrapolate that social compact into a marxist future is spurious, ungrounded in fact, and ignores our history. But then again, I shouldn't expect an American to have a clue about our history and the foundation and pillars of our society.
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I relied upon your statements, the statements of an expert, to draw my conclusion. From each...to each is pretty telling. You said you view each individual's wealth as the nation's wealth. How are your taxes? Are they steeply progressive. If so you are much farther along the path to Marxist socialism than you are willing to admit.
 
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