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Thread: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    We have the right to "pursue" happiness and success, but there is no guarantee or right for us to succeed. As an analogy, all students can participate in the national spelling bee, starting at the ground level. But nobody is entitled to win the final prize except the best speller. This is modeled on natural selection. The right to pursue implies there we can't fix various stages of the spelling bee so we get the winner we want via unnatural selection.

    Evolution within a culture will not occur if we fix the deck leading to unnatural selection. Only natural can evolve. Unnatural works only in the short term, which is long enough for needs of politicians with self lives.

    Why not entitle the National Spelling Bee in an artificial way? This would make many "feel" better. The long term health of the spelling bee would suffer since the alpha dogs would not bother to show up. If this were deer or animals, the species would regress.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes... people aren't entitled to any success. However, they are allowed to the opportunity to achieve it. It's been the axiom preached to every immigrant group coming to American for the last 150 years. You should pick up a history book on the matter.

    ”The German emigrant comes into a country free from the despotism, privileged orders and monopolies, intolerable taxes, and constraints in matters of belief and conscience. Everyone can travel and settle wherever he pleases. No passport is demanded, no police mingles in his affairs or hinders his movements....Fidelity and merit are the only sources of honor here. The rich stand on the same footing as the poor; the scholar is not a mug above the most humble mechanics; no German ought to be ashamed to pursue any occupation....[In America] wealth and possession of real estate confer not the least political right on its owner above what the poorest citizen has. Nor are there nobility, privileged orders, or standing armies to weaken the physical and moral power of the people, nor are there swarms of public functionaries to devour in idleness credit for. Above all, there are no princes and corrupt courts representing the so-called divine 'right of birth.' In such a country the talents, energy and perseverance of a person...have far greater opportunity to display than in monarchies."[5]

    US outlook: America remains land of opportunity - FT.com

    No longer the land of opportunity - The Washington Post

    U.S. Is 'Land Of Opportunity' No More? : NPR



    It is really a shame that you have no clue what it is Obama is actually talking about.
    Its Obama's job to communicate what he is talking about.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Good stuff. Too bad most of us realize that there is a net gain from having a well educated populace at the rather small expense of taxation.
    He hasn't denied the benefit. His objection was that the govt has no right to do so. At least afaict that's what he has said.

    He hasn't objected to the idea that an educated electorate is essential to a democracy in the modern world. ...at least afaict
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Well then it would appear to me that you guys have plenty of people to work with to reach your goals. I frankly think there is better ways to go about this goal than give it to the government.
    Hey - think of it this way. Your way has been tried: Small government, most of the money controlled by an elite minority, child labor, old people dying from diarrhea, no healthcare, etc. Today? Big government, most of the money still controlled by an elite minority, children have access to education, old people can afford to retire at 65, most have healthcare. I'll take my chances with the 21st century.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Fortunate enough? So basically your justification for using people for others benefits and calling it something people are entitled to is because these people that are being used live in what you call the greatest nation on earth? Ok then.
    You know the drill. You have always known the drill. It is not new and there are no surprises. Anytime you don't like the deal - you can opt out. There is no wall keeping you here. I am sure you have heard the wisdom about the door and the Good Lord.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Hey - think of it this way. Your way has been tried: Small government, most of the money controlled by an elite minority, child labor, old people dying from diarrhea, no healthcare, etc. .
    Ahhhh.... the Libertarian Dream...... the Randroid Utopia ....... the Nirvana of Selfishness.

    We could add to it
    *** no worker rights
    *** no labor unions
    *** no government regulations on Big Business
    *** no consumer protection legislation
    *** no protection for minority rights
    *** no public services
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Its Obama's job to communicate what he is talking about.
    He did. You seem to have misunderstood it or not been knowledgeable enough about the world to know what he was talking about. Either one is irrelevant to me.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Ahhhh.... the Libertarian Dream...... the Randroid Utopia ....... the Nirvana of Selfishness.

    We could add to it
    *** no worker rights
    *** no labor unions
    *** no government regulations on Big Business
    *** no consumer protection legislation
    *** no protection for minority rights
    *** no public services

    As long as I'm King I'm cool with that!

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    No. The Constitution does NOT protect our right and entitlement to freedom to succeed. It protects our right to pursue happiness as we see fit as long as we do so within the framework of established law. Nothing more.

    So, you are free to work hard and try your hand at being a dairy farmer, a cattle ranger, the owner of a taxi cab service, an eCommerce mogul selling everything from candied apples to zuccini. But you are not entitled to success. You may pursue it, but you aren't entitled to it.

    You achieve success by working hard, studying your craft, taking advantage of your skills and opportunities as they present themselves (or as you create them), by formulating a plan and executing same with sheer determination. Given enough time, the right formula for success, proper implementation and some luck you can be successful in this country. But success is NOT guaranteed, not by the Constitution or any other law of this land and you're certainly not entitled to it. To think otherwise is not only foolish, it places you in the exact same "entitlement mindset" Republican/Conservatives critisize the poor of believing.
    A growing number have the moronic sense of entitlement to success without even the pursuit. This is precisely a group Obama is strategically chasing and why Romney's 47% comment is accurate in my opinion. Of course, apply some logic and realize that you exclude those who are truly unable to work or are retired. Even Obama, as seen in the 2007 speech recently publicized, feeds the victim mentality to people (especially blacks) and paints being rich as evil. Instead, someone needs to whip the work ethic in this country into shape. My wife just quit her job at a high school after three lectures because about 25 of her 30 students were disrespectful and one even physically assaulted her. The 2nd day of class, a student tried to insist the classroom door be open during lecture and tried to physically push my wife when she blocked to student from the door. This is the kind of punk Obama wants "entitled" to college? Instead, teach your "culture" the respect and work ethic to earn scholarships. This generalizes to requiring people to earn any type of aid desired.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    As long as I'm King I'm cool with that!
    And therein lies the problem.

    And you better have really good palace security.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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