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Thread: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact Mitt Romney has an excellent reputation throughout the business world though if you have something you can legitimately pin on him then the Obama campaign, and many others, would like to know what it is.
    Lots of mergers and acquisitions that were blessed by the business community involved a reduction in the labor force of the target business. How is this the "growth" you guys seem to think Romney will bring the US?

    Are you aware of the storied corruption of Chicago politics?
    Yup. Are you aware that the Mayor of Chicago is not simultaneously a professor at Harvard Law School?

    What you are suggesting, Grant, is that no one who has ever lived in Chicago should be elected President, which is preposterous on its face.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    As I said, this isn't the first time he's said those words. Here they are...with context:



    My questions remain:

    What is my "fair share" that I should be doing?

    Who decides what my "fair share" is?

    What happens if I don't do my "fair share"?
    Pay. Your. Taxes.

    This has become a silly argument, Mycroft.


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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    You are banging on his use of the term "fair share". What could that mean, apart from dividing up the pain -- and if not the pain of taxes, then what?
    Ahhh...I see. You are still on the "paying" thing. As I said the last time you talked about paying, Obama didn't say "Everyone PAYS their fair share"...he said "Everyone DOES his fair share".

    As to what else he could mean...THAT'S what I'm asking.

    What is my "fair share" that I should be doing?

    Who decides what my "fair share" is?

    What happens if I don't do my "fair share"?

    Now, if, as you say, it has to do with taxes why would he use the same phrase in a context that has nothing to do with taxes? Is it a phrase that has no meaning? Does he just pop it out whenever he thinks it'll sound good? That would be in line with your stuff about puffery, but if true, then as I asked, how do we determine what he says is puffery and what he says is not? Or do we consider everything he says to be puffery?
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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I notice you never answered my question. If nobody is entitled to success, does that include the people who already have earned it? I would prefer some lip service, for once, about how you are somewhat entitled to keep the fruits of the sucess you earn. The word "entitle" and it's variation doesn't always have to mean government entitlements (though, I'm not surprised that's what you immediately think of. Lol. J/k).
    I did answer your question, sorry you didn't like the answer. I said it depended on how the person earned the wealth. I've a feeling you might be applauding the Bernie Madoffs of this world right up to the point at which they are arrested. There are ethical and unethical ways of earning wealth, and those are not to be confused with legal and illegal ways of doing so. They are not always the same thing.
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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Pay. Your. Taxes.

    This has become a silly argument, Mycroft.

    When he used that phrase in the debate, he wasn't talking about "Pay. Your. Taxes.".


    btw, Pinkie, I'm not arguing anything. I'm asking questions that nobody appears to want to answer.
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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    As I said, this isn't the first time he's said those words. Here they are...with context:



    My questions remain:

    What is my "fair share" that I should be doing?

    Who decides what my "fair share" is?

    What happens if I don't do my "fair share"?
    Thanks this has more substance rather than an invitation for an open ended interpretation.

    Obama has historically used the term "fair share " when referring to taxes IIRC. He has been criticized for this for example, "Republicans dispute Obama's 'fair share' claims, say top earners already pay enough"..: |Republicans dispute Obama's 'fair share' claims, say top earners already pay enough Fox News


    The fair share is determined by U.S.C. 26 INTERNAL REVENUE CODE passed by Congress. In the US we have what is called a progressive tax system where individuals tax liability is determined by a number of factors including: income, deductions, credits etc. Once all those are taken into account a final tax liability is determined.

    A person must file a tax return even if it is incorrect or incomplete thereafter they can file an amended return. Should they not file a return they are breaking the law.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    For a President to say that nobody is is entitled to success in the USA?

    That's plain wrong.
    How the **** is that "plain wrong?" Hasn't it been mostly conservatives who have been claiming that nobody is entitled to anything in this country? What precisely did Obama say that is so controversial?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    For a President to say that nobody is is entitled to success in the USA?

    That's plain wrong.
    I don't understand how you think that is wrong. They are entitled to the opportunity to succeed, not success in and of itself.

    This is more a 'conservative' view than a 'liberal' view, so it's kinda surprising Obama would say it, however, considering he is in campaign mode, and a lot of the crap thrown at him has been about him wanting equal outcomes, it makes sense he would say it. If he believes it or not is a different matter.

    To even suggest that equality of outcome is what the government should be pushing, suggest the desire for government involvement in a hell of a lot more than it's already got it's fingers in, and also suggests a form of government we do not have, nor would most want.
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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Lots of mergers and acquisitions that were blessed by the business community involved a reduction in the labor force of the target business. How is this the "growth" you guys seem to think Romney will bring the US?
    Failing companies were targeted which Romney felt might be saved. Among those he saved were Staples, Sports Authority, Domino's Pizza, Pizza Hut, Brookstone, AMC Entertainment, Burger King, Burlington Coat Factory, Dunk' Donuts, Sealy, Toys 'R Us, Warner Music Group, Totes, and The Weather Channel.

    How many people do you think work for these companies and owe their jobs to Mitt Romney?
    Yup. Are you aware that the Mayor of Chicago is not simultaneously a professor at Harvard Law School?

    Yes, I am and never claimed otherwise.
    What you are suggesting, Grant, is that no one who has ever lived in Chicago should be elected President, which is preposterous on its face.


    Rather than go with what you think I 'suggest", why not go with what I actually say and then respond to that?

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    How the **** is that "plain wrong?" Hasn't it been mostly conservatives who have been claiming that nobody is entitled to anything in this country? What precisely did Obama say that is so controversial?
    Don't expect Mya to respond to such a question. They pounced on the statement and now run away from their flawed interpretation of it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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