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Thread: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post

    So, your big complaint about Obama is that he did not cure the Great Recession? And you believe Romney will?

    Exactly what is it that Romney will do to end recession, Grant?
    No, there are many other legitimate complaints against Obama rather than just the economy. That is just one of his failures, though an important one.

    Romney has actually outlined his plans very articulately, and you can go to his web site or follow the last debate to see what they are. It might be wise to look at the plans from both candidates and see which one is more realistic. Looking at their records of success and failures might also shed some light.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    I think the key word is "entitled." You are not "entitled" to success, you get there by your own work.

    It baffles me that so many Conservatives in this thread are so quick to attack Obama that they don't see it. For a group that's always talking about things like "work hard," and "you're not entitled." I mean, if you work hard and earn it, that's great. But you are not entitled to have it handed to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I think the key word is "entitled." You are not "entitled" to success, you get there by your own work.

    It baffles me that so many Conservatives in this thread are so quick to attack Obama that they don't see it. For a group that's always talking about things like "work hard," and "you're not entitled." I mean, if you work hard and earn it, that's great. But you are not entitled to have it handed to you.
    Are you entitled to success if you've earned it? Why will nobody answer this question?

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I live in Ohio, Grant. I'd give Obama a B on the economy. There are other performance areas on which I'd give him a much lower grade, and no, he did not clue in that we were in trouble as fast as I would have liked. OTOH, there was never a day in his presidency that he wasn't working on it.

    I'd give Romney an F, based upon what I believe the impact of his policies would be. As I mentioned, I lived through the Recession of the 1970's and I have no faith whatsoever in "trickle down economics".

    I am baffled that anyone still believes this could work, but apparently, some do.
    Considering how many Republicans in the primaries were willing to vote for "not Romney," the gymnastics they're going through now to declare that he will "save us from certain destruction" are kind of fun to watch.

    We've had 2 straight failures in the White House. If Republicans have their way, they want to make it 3.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Are you entitled to success if you've earned it? Why will nobody answer this question?
    If you earned it, you earned it. That's not an entitlement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I live in Ohio, Grant. I'd give Obama a B on the economy. There are other performance areas on which I'd give him a much lower grade, and no, he did not clue in that we were in trouble as fast as I would have liked. OTOH, there was never a day in his presidency that he wasn't working on it.

    I'd give Romney an F, based upon what I believe the impact of his policies would be. As I mentioned, I lived through the Recession of the 1970's and I have no faith whatsoever in "trickle down economics".

    I am baffled that anyone still believes this could work, but apparently, some do.
    Where did Romney use the phrase of 'trickle down economics'? He actually referred to 'trickle down government'.

    By giving Romney an "F" for his policies, which policy in particular do you find to be the worst?

    It seems this 'Great Recession" would have been so great had Obama been able to turn things around. It would have just been a dark memory of the final couple of years of the Bush Presidency. It is the length of it which makes it great, with no end in sight through Obama's failed policies. I can't see how the American economy can continue to survive under his mismanagement. Questions are now being openly asked if he is destroying the economy deliberately.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    So, your big complaint about Obama is that he did not cure the Great Recession? And you believe Romney will?

    Exactly what is it that Romney will do to end recession, Grant?
    Goodness. Hm. where to start:


    currently our tax system costs us $431 Billion annually - just to figure out how to comply with the damn thing. thats' $431 Billion wasted on paperwork. that's huge - it's fully 3% of GDP that could be plowed right back into growth instead wasted on compliance, avoidance, and paperwork. Our tax structure provides all kinds of incentives and tax loopholes for people to engage in economically unproductive behavior; shifting income, investment, wealth, and location around so as to minimize tax exposure rather than maximize productivity. To be blunt, it diverts massive amounts of wealth from productive to less (or straight up 'un') productive uses every year. Our tax code punishes people for saving and investing (which is economically beneficial) and rewards them for going into debt in order to consume (which is economically harmful). It punishes people for getting married and forming stable families in which to raise children. It discourages new business formation and investment. It encourages malinvestment and helps to feed bubbles. On top of all that, it costs us a huge amount of money to maintain. We could fight four wars the size of Iraq and Afghanistan, and still have enough left to fund the Department of Education, the Department of Agriculture, the Department of Energy, NASA, and the EPA; just on the cost of compliance alone.

    The Laffer center estimates that if we could just cut our complexity in half, we would gain 0.5% of extra growth every year which means it would compound over time. That's why both the Bi-Partisan Bowles Simpson plan, the 2012 House Republican plan, and the Romney plan build on the success of earlier tax reforms and strip out corporate welfare, tax loopholes, and complexities in the tax code and replace it with flatter, lower rates with minimized compliance costs and minimized ability to avoid taxes as a necessary step in stimulating economic growth. That they are revenue neutral (IE: since they cut rates only enough to make up the gain given by the stripping of the loopholes) is an added bonus - though Bowles-Simpson estimates it will get us an extra $100 Billion a year, which it suggested we should automatically peg towards debt reduction. Both of those predictions, it should be noted, are (as i understand it) scored statically; given the likely growth following that significant reduction in complexity there is a strong argument to be made that revenues would rise by considerably more than that. The growth from the loss of complexity and the loss of uncertainty would be explosive and compounding, meaning that every year the effect would be stronger.


    The unemployment rate right now in North Dakota is about 3%. In oil country, even truck drivers can make six figures. We have more oil in the Rocky Mountains alone than Saudi Arabia has; and we have even more natural gas and oil along our shorelines, and even more coal. Energy jobs are A) blue collar jobs that B) pay significantly higher than the median wage and C) cannot be shipped overseas, ever. The growth potentials of this are amazing, and the jobs that would be directly and indirectly created are legion. I'm a pretty pessimistic guy when it comes to our nations' fiscal state, but the growth potential in our energy sector is one of the few things that really gets' me excited. We need to make like Canada, Great Britain, and Russia, and start taking advantage of it to create decent jobs and higher living standards for our people.


    Generally, Romney is a businessman. He knows how to make stuff grow, and he knows that his reelection would be dependent on him doing so. Obama is a college lecturer. He knows how to give good monologues, but the operations of the free market are a bit opaque to him, so of course he isn't going to be able to handle it skillfully.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Just because you don't care for my answers does not mean they do not exist.
    My dear, you didn't answer any of my questions.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    If you earned it, you earned it. That's not an entitlement.
    Doesn't "entitle" just mean getting what you're due? Entitle does not always have to mean government entitlements, and actually nothing's that's unearned should even be considered an "entitlement".

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    [QUOTE=Andalublue;1060991572]
    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post

    I really don't understand the point of this thread. Are rightists complaining because he says that people cannot expect to have success spoon-fed to them, or handed to them on a plate? I thought that that was their schtick. I thought the Right was whole-heartedly against the entitlement culture. If they are now saying that he was wrong in what he said, what would they have had him say?
    That is my understanding yes.... entitlements to success. Like a free lunch...

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