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Thread: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I think he does actually need to watch his tongue a little more carefully. He doesn't exactly give off the impression he respects people that are successful and what they have done to get there and when he makes comments like this people will see nothing but further contempt towards it. You may not like it, but when people see comments like this they are reminded of his earlier comments on wealth and success and regardless if it should be applied here or not its should be understood by Obama that is the impression he gives to people. If he wants to make these kind of comments and have his views on taxes and wealth that he has he should keep away from open ended comments like this.
    I agree, that is the subtext.

    But this is a campaign speech. There's no upside to him courting the wealthy -- they'll never vote for him. He can win if he galvanizes the poor and (some of) the middle class to vote. Much as I loathe it, I do thinking pandering to the class warfare motif is a winning strategy as long as he does so effectively but not openly.

    Because if they vote, they'll vote for him.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I'm confused. The Republican Party has been saying this for a while now, and it was true then.
    True, but they don't have the tax views or an aroma of hating wealth that he has. They can very easily make comments like this and everyone knows exactly what they mean. Obama really should keep away from things like this. Fear can be a funny thing and when people feel like their fear has merit its best to know where the turns in the road are and keep away from certain neighborhoods. Both parties have neighborhoods they should avoid and success is the democrats neighborhood they should not go in.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I think he does actually need to watch his tongue a little more carefully. He doesn't exactly give off the impression he respects people that are successful and what they have done to get there and when he makes comments like this people will see nothing but further contempt towards it. You may not like it, but when people see comments like this they are reminded of his earlier comments on wealth and success and regardless if it should be applied here or not its should be understood by Obama that is the impression he gives to people. If he wants to make these kind of comments and have his views on taxes and wealth that he has he should keep away from open ended comments like this.
    Not so.

    He gives that impression to people who had the pre-conceived incorrect notion that he:

    A: Hates the successful.

    B: Is a socialist.

    If you already believe that, of course you're going to find that comment to mean what I said above.

    But that's your problem, not his and certainly not those among us who don't have to take words out of context to find meanings in things that don't exist.

    And by the way it's wrong no matter who does it.

    That whole "You didn't build that" was complete crap taken completely out of context in the same way that it's being done here.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Meh, I did not have the same confusion. But it's all puffery.

    And as Mya pointed out, not especially good puffery.
    Puffery??

    Does that mean I should just disregard these words?

    Tell me, how am I to know what he says is puffery and what is not? Which of the following is puffery?

    "...everybody is getting a fair shot..."

    "...everybody is doing their fair share..."

    "...everybody is playing by the same rules..."

    Or, is it ALL puffery?

    In honesty, Pinkie, I think "confusion" is the wrong word. I'm not confused, I'm just asking questions and I don't think you are confused...you are just not asking questions. Now, that's your choice. No problem. But you're not helping me any.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Puffery??

    Does that mean I should just disregard these words?

    Tell me, how am I to know what he says is puffery and what is not? Which of the following is puffery?

    "...everybody is getting a fair shot..."

    "...everybody is doing their fair share..."

    "...everybody is playing by the same rules..."

    Or, is it ALL puffery?

    In honesty, Pinkie, I think "confusion" is the wrong word. I'm not confused, I'm just asking questions and I don't think you are confused...you are just not asking questions. Now, that's your choice. No problem. But you're not helping me any.
    I think it's the difference between the list of ingredients on a jar of peanut butter and the Madison Avenue ad for a brand of peanut butter. Both tell you things you may want to know about the manufacturer, etc. but to answer a question such as you are asking takes research.

    Elections are about emotions, Mycroft. Not for you, obviously -- this is not how you vote. But I assure you, if Romney can get one good catchphrase embedded in people's minds and Obama makes a single gaffe (between now and the election), Obama can lose. It's herd behavior, and cannot be understood on a purely rational level.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I think it's the difference between the list of ingredients on a jar of peanut butter and the Madison Avenue ad for a brand of peanut butter. Both tell you things you may want to know about the manufacturer, etc. but to answer a question such as you are asking takes research.

    Elections are about emotions, Mycroft. Not for you, obviously -- this is not how you vote. But I assure you, if Romney can get one good catchphrase embedded in people's minds and Obama makes a single gaffe (between now and the election), Obama can lose. It's herd behavior, and cannot be understood on a purely rational level.
    Whew, good thing Obama's been completely gaffe free so far.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Whew, good thing Obama's been completely gaffe free so far.
    I know. I'm actually starting to worry a little.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Not so.

    He gives that impression to people who had the pre-conceived incorrect notion that he:

    A: Hates the successful.

    B: Is a socialist.

    If you already believe that, of course you're going to find that comment to mean what I said above.

    But that's your problem, not his and certainly not those among us who don't have to take words out of context to find meanings in things that don't exist.

    And by the way it's wrong no matter who does it.

    That whole "You didn't build that" was complete crap taken completely out of context in the same way that it's being done here.
    Is there anything Obama has said that might be disagreeable to a fairly large group of people that we can believe he actually meant? But, of course, Ryan makes a comment about conception and suddenly he condones rape (actually, apparently all us conservatives do that). Rick Perry uses the phrase "black cloud" and it's racism. Newt says "food stamp president" and it's racism. Herman ****ing Caine makes a joke playing on his name, saying that the best way to beat Obama is with a Caine, and, of course, it's racism. It'd be nice if people were equally concerned about "context" in those instances. /shrug

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Not so.

    He gives that impression to people who had the pre-conceived incorrect notion that he:

    A: Hates the successful.

    B: Is a socialist.
    The problem with the first is that you have to actually show that he doesn't have contempt for the rich and that is a tall order with nothing really to use for ingredients. This is one of the problems liberals and democrats have in general. They generally treat the rich like the enemy of the state and whatever they do is not good enough. If they don't hire enough people then they are being greedy. If they move their plant then they are out to hurt people. If they have to cut wages to avoid going under they want everyone to work for two dollars a day. I could list examples all day long but the point is this behavior only says one thing, I hate the successful. The impression that successful are left with is that they are the enemy and that their property and their lives are nothing more than the property of the state and all they did to get it is meaningless. When they are paying more taxes than everyone else by large margin and it never seems to be enough and the liberals are always trying to figure out how to put in place a higher rate or a new tax here or there that only affects the successful the impression is only worsened. Worse yet, is that over the years the definition of successful has been getting looser and looser and more and more people are falling under it. In the days that liberals like to look back and smile at the group they used for their interests was much smaller, but these days people that are making just over 100 thousand feel like victims to their policies and to their hate which was not the case all those years ago. This is not easy for liberals or Obama to fight back on after decades on decades of building it up and at this point I don't think you can say they have done a wonderful job at not giving off the impression that they do NOT like the successful. I think if you are really here to fight back on that you will have an impossible task in front of you.

    As for the second, he is a planned economy socialist.

    Btw, I never said I saw what he said here in any other way than you. I'm just posting on why he should avoid such comments in the future.
    Last edited by Henrin; 10-06-12 at 05:45 AM.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Is there anything Obama has said that might be disagreeable to a fairly large group of people that we can believe he actually meant? But, of course, Ryan makes a comment about conception and suddenly he condones rape (actually, apparently all us conservatives do that). Rick Perry uses the phrase "black cloud" and it's racism. Newt says "food stamp president" and it's racism. Herman ****ing Caine makes a joke playing on his name, saying that the best way to beat Obama is with a Caine, and, of course, it's racism. It'd be nice if people were equally concerned about "context" in those instances. /shrug
    If it's repeated often enough, it becomes true. (Not that reality changes, but that the electorate reacts as if it had.) Ergo, partisans parrot in hopes one of their catchphrases becomes a meme.

    Tell me that "Obamaphone" makes any sense, rationally? And yet it has legs and we all know it.

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