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Thread: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

  1. #151
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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country'

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    You've been a member here 5 years and you don't know how this works? He questioned moderation publically. That's a pretty big no no.
    I understand and respect the wishes of the mods - I just hope that you respect my wishes to leave. He was dead on in his responses concerning the topic of this thread... Didn't see what he said about the mods, but I wish he hadn't said that.....

    Anyway, take it easy.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I agree with you. I don't like to follow the mob and I do enjoy thinking and analyzing for myself. And when I have questions or concerns, I ask or express them. That's what I'm doing here.

    So, Pinkie, do you have any answers or insights to my questions? I am being quite sincere when I say that I really would like to know more.
    Well, 75% of 0 is 0. Everyone will do better if the economy recovers, and I have no insight as to how best to do that -- but I am utterly unmoved by the "trickle down" ideas from Romney, having living through the 1970's Recession.

    That said, there are a variety of ways to look at "fair share". First, is government as lean and mean as it could be?

    I believe I can get an "Amen" on that from everyone.

    So, once we know where "the bottom" is, do we need a tax hike? Probably -- we borrow like a freshman in college with a new credit card.

    Who should pay that increase?

    Well, alas, all the money that fuels this economy is owned by the wealthy. If we disincentivize savings or investment, we are all screwed. So there is a limit on what we can gouge them for.

    Can't gouge the poor, because of no blood from stones reality.

    I'd like to take as much from the wealthy as possible before laying off an additional tax increase on the middle class. This is because a $1,000 increase in a tax bill at my house is going to deprive me of far more discretionary income than one such at Bill Gates' house.

    So, I don't know what should be done -- but I have a feel for what guides I want my government to follow when they decide.


  3. #153
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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country'

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    I understand and respect the wishes of the mods - I just hope that you respect my wishes to leave. He was dead on in his responses concerning the topic of this thread... Didn't see what he said about the mods, but I wish he hadn't said that.....

    Anyway, take it easy.
    Of course, it's your choice. Peace.

  4. #154
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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    oh ....
    People are very jumpy, Mya. it's always like this at election time, and this is probably a more important election than most.

    It'll pass.

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country'

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    I understand and respect the wishes of the mods - I just hope that you respect my wishes to leave. He was dead on in his responses concerning the topic of this thread... Didn't see what he said about the mods, but I wish he hadn't said that.....

    Anyway, take it easy.
    Be well, Nightrider. I hope you'll reconsider.


  6. #156
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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonsa View Post
    Put it another way. What he is saying to everyone is:

    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
    Really??!!

    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch

    "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" (alternatively, "There's no such thing as a free lunch" or other variants) is a popular adage communicating the idea that it is impossible to get something for nothing. The initialisms TNSTAFL, TANSTAAFL, and TINSTAAFL are also used. Uses of the phrase dating back to the 1930s and 1940s have been found, but the phrase's first appearance is unknown.[1] The "free lunch" in the saying refers to the nineteenth century practice in American bars of offering a "free lunch" as a way to entice drinking customers. The phrase and the acronym are central to Robert Heinlein's 1966 libertarian science fiction novel The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, which popularized it.[2][3] The free-market economist Milton Friedman also popularized the phrase[1] by using it as the title of a 1975 book, and it often appears in economics textbooks;[4] Campbell McConnell writes that the idea is "at the core of economics".[5]

    "Free lunch"

    The "free lunch" referred to in the acronym relates back to the once-common tradition of saloons in the United States providing a "free" lunch to patrons who had purchased at least one drink. All the foods on offer were high in salt (e.g. ham, cheese and salted crackers) so those who ate them ended up buying a lot of beer. Rudyard Kipling, writing in 1891, noted how he came upon a bar room full of bad Salon pictures, in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter.

    "It was the institution of the 'free lunch' I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts."[6]

    TANSTAAFL, on the other hand, indicates an acknowledgment that in reality a person or a society cannot get "something for nothing". Even if something appears to be free, there is always a cost to the person or to society as a whole even though that cost may be hidden or distributed. For example, as Heinlein has one of his characters point out, a bar offering a free lunch will likely charge more for its drinks.[7]

    Meanings

    TANSTAAFL demonstrates opportunity cost. Greg Mankiw described the concept as: "To get one thing that we like, we usually have to give up another thing that we like. Making decisions requires trading off one goal against another."[13] The idea that there is no free lunch at the societal level applies only when all resources are being used completely and appropriately, i.e., when economic efficiency prevails. If not, a 'free lunch' can be had through a more efficient utilisation of resources. If one individual or group gets something at no cost, somebody else ends up paying for it. If there appears to be no direct cost to any single individual, there is a social cost. Similarly, someone can benefit for "free" from an externality or from a public good, but someone has to pay the cost of producing these benefits.

    In the sciences, TANSTAAFL means that the universe as a whole is ultimately a closed system—there is no magic source of matter, energy, light, or indeed lunch, that does not draw resources from something else, and will not eventually be exhausted. Therefore the TANSTAAFL argument may also be applied to natural physical processes in a closed system (either the universe as a whole, or any system that does not receive energy or matter from outside). (See Second law of thermodynamics.) The bio-ecologist Barry Commoner used this concept as the last of his famous "Four Laws of Ecology".

    In mathematical finance, the term is also used as an informal synonym for the principle of no-arbitrage. This principle states that a combination of securities that has the same cash flows as another security must have the same net price in equilibrium.

    TANSTAAFL is sometimes used as a response to claims of the virtues of free software. Supporters of free software often counter that the use of the term "free" in this context is primarily a reference to a lack of constraint ("libre") rather than a lack of cost ("gratis"). Richard Stallman has described it as "free as in speech not as in beer".

    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Now...in that whole wiki article, there is no mention of "fair share" or anything like it. Plus, TANSTAAFL doesn't answer my questions: Exactly what is their fair share? Who decides? And what happens if I don't do what Obama considers my "fair share"?
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country'

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrider View Post
    I liked him - why was he banned?

    I guess that if someone can't express their right to freedom of speech in this forum, I would like no part of it either.

    Adios (I won't be back).
    Moderator's Warning:
    Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]1) Commenting PUBLICLY on Mod action is strictly forbidden at DP.
    2) This forum has rules. You agree to abide by them when you sign up. People get infracted and sometimes banned for breaking those rules.
    3) What happened to 4Horseman is was a result of him breaking forum rules.
    4) If anyone further comments publicly on this action, you would also be making a "poor choice".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    People are very jumpy, Mya. it's always like this at election time, and this is probably a more important election than most.

    It'll pass.

    Who's jumpy my friend??? we are ok here ... all of us .... we are cool we are just fine thank you very much !

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Well, 75% of 0 is 0. Everyone will do better if the economy recovers, and I have no insight as to how best to do that -- but I am utterly unmoved by the "trickle down" ideas from Romney, having living through the 1970's Recession.

    That said, there are a variety of ways to look at "fair share". First, is government as lean and mean as it could be?

    I believe I can get an "Amen" on that from everyone.

    So, once we know where "the bottom" is, do we need a tax hike? Probably -- we borrow like a freshman in college with a new credit card.

    Who should pay that increase?

    Well, alas, all the money that fuels this economy is owned by the wealthy. If we disincentivize savings or investment, we are all screwed. So there is a limit on what we can gouge them for.

    Can't gouge the poor, because of no blood from stones reality.

    I'd like to take as much from the wealthy as possible before laying off an additional tax increase on the middle class. This is because a $1,000 increase in a tax bill at my house is going to deprive me of far more discretionary income than one such at Bill Gates' house.

    So, I don't know what should be done -- but I have a feel for what guides I want my government to follow when they decide.

    Obama's words were "everyone is doing their fair share" not "everyone is paying their fair share". So, I believe you've spoken about the wrong point in your post.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Obama's words were "everyone is doing their fair share" not "everyone is paying their fair share". So, I believe you've spoken about the wrong point in your post.
    What would Obama like me to do, apart from paying my taxes?

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