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Turkey fires artillery at Syria

Red_Dave said:
Again if Al Qaeda seek to take advantage of their desperation then we should deprive them of the opportunity to do so. Think what would have happened if we had supported the Vietnamese against the French and deprived the Chinese and Soviets of the opportunity to take advantage of the situation?

What you need to explain here is what is so heinous about these actions other then their illegality, because their illegality itself means didley squat.
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I have linked to the Syrian rebels killing civilians haven't I? If not, look (Syria: Armed Opposition Groups Committing Abuses | Human Rights Watch)

"Abuses include kidnapping, detention, and torture of security force members, government supporters, and people identified as members of pro-government militias, called shabeeha. Human Rights Watch has also received reports of executions by armed opposition groups of security force members and civilians."

Under the title "Kidnappings," it is stated:


"Human Rights Watch also expressed concern about FSA [Free Syrian Army] kidnappings of Iranian nationals, some of whom the group has confirmed are civilians."

Under "Executions," HRW's report describes the Syrian opposition's practice of rounding up suspects and killing them without trial, generally on the grounds of confessions coerced through torture. Other executions are simply carried out as reprisals with no apparent offense beyond suspected affiliations being cited.


That is what is heinous about the actions.


Edit: Edited bolded words.
 
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I think the resolution authorizing Turkish military strikes is the first step on an inevitable path to significant Turkish military actions inside Syria, despite the protestations of Erdogan to the contrary. The biggest thing holding Turkey back, ironically in my opinion, is the lack of a US green light or the public and private assurances that Turkish military action will be supported and covered by NATO or at minimum the US and a voluntary coalition. Other concerns such as lack of UN authorization exist, low popularity for a unilateral campaign, exist and are valid but are subordinate to the aforementioned point.

However the precedent has now been established, and it is almost a certainty that eventual other cross-border violations or incursions will occur which will in turn force Turkey to take aggressive responses like we have seen over the past two days. After the US election in November we will see whether an Obama or Romney administration will get serious on Syria and give clear parameters and instructions to its allies on Syria. I think at this point the chance of a Turkish military action, a real ground incursion, becomes highest. The escalating rhetoric on Western inaction over Syria emanating from Ankara is a testament to the dual reality of Turkey's position. They do not want to be seen agitating for military action either to their people or to the international community, but they want an excuse and cover to do something, if they can be given the proper assurances.

Of course an obvious X factor in all this is an unexpectedly large or deadly cross border attack, or a severe Syrian atrocity along the border that tips their hands.
 
Sherman123 said:
I think the resolution authorizing Turkish military strikes is the first step on an inevitable path to significant Turkish military actions inside Syria, despite the protestations of Erdogan to the contrary. The biggest thing holding Turkey back, ironically in my opinion, is the lack of a US green light or the public and private assurances that Turkish military action will be supported and covered by NATO or at minimum the US and a voluntary coalition. Other concerns such as lack of UN authorization exist, low popularity for a unilateral campaign, exist and are valid but are subordinate to the aforementioned point.

However the precedent has now been established, and it is almost a certainty that eventual other cross-border violations or incursions will occur which will in turn force Turkey to take aggressive responses like we have seen over the past two days. After the US election in November we will see whether an Obama or Romney administration will get serious on Syria and give clear parameters and instructions to its allies on Syria. I think at this point the chance of a Turkish military action, a real ground incursion, becomes highest. The escalating rhetoric on Western inaction over Syria emanating from Ankara is a testament to the dual reality of Turkey's position. They do not want to be seen agitating for military action either to their people or to the international community, but they want an excuse and cover to do something, if they can be given the proper assurances.

Of course an obvious X factor in all this is an unexpectedly large or deadly cross border attack, or a severe Syrian atrocity along the border that tips their hands.
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the most patriotic commanders of our army have been arrested by akp because they rejected to support the arabian spring..........yes we will have gone into a war with syria after your elections...
 
Medusa said:
the most patriotic commanders of our army have been arrested by akp because they rejected to support the arabian spring..........yes we will have gone into a war with syria after your elections...
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There are issues with the Military Trials and it has aroused concerns about the AKP and Erdogan, but I would object to classifying them as conspiratorially as you do or for those reasons.
 
Sherman123 said:
There are issues with the Military Trials and it has aroused concerns about the AKP and Erdogan, but I would object to classifying them as conspiratorially as you do or for those reasons.
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ı dont think anyone is concerned ..i wish somebody was concerned....
 
lizzie said:
Learn some lessons from history.
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Maybe YOU should brush up on your history lessons. The Mujahideen =/= The Taliban. Just because they look the same to you - bearded Muslim Afghan militants - doesn't mean that they are. Our assistance to the Mujahideen in the 80s has not contributed in any way to the current debacle. On the contrary, it was when we lost interest in the region and turned our backs in the early 90s after the collapse of the Soviet Union, that allowed for the Taliban to emerge from Pakistan and seize control in the midst of the ensuing Afghan civil war, culminating in the mess we now face today.

If anything, the recent history of Afghanistan serves as evidence supporting a policy of the US maintaining more, not less, proactive influence in the region.
 
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