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Thread: Space station to move to avoid debris

  1. #21
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    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Lets figure out how much space is really up, and lets start with the volume of the Earth:

    Here's the formula for volume of a sphere, I realize the Earth isn't a perfect sphere but its the best we can do:
    Attachment 67135790
    Volume of a sphere calculator

    So all we need then is the radius of the Earth which Wikipedia tells me is 3963 miles. So input that into the formula and we get "260,711,882,973 cubic miles."

    Now low Earth orbit is 1243 miles(2000km) above the surface, but lets stick with a smaller number for the sake of not creating massive numbers. We'll go with 370 miles because below that is the most crowded space, based off this wikipedia source:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...laltitudes.jpg

    So lets add 370 miles to our formula and do it again, that gives us "340,764,760,245 cubic miles." Now that's the volume of the Earth plus 370 miles extra into space, but that's obviously not the number we are looking for because it counts the Earth and its atmosphere where obviously there is no space junk. So looking at the last source we see Sputnik flew at an altitude of 133 miles, I don't know if there's anything below that but lets go with that number. So what we need to find is the volume of space in a sphere that is 4333 miles in radius(3963+370) from its outward most point along the radius (4333) to 133 miles below that (4200).

    Using the sphere volume formula again a sphere of 4200 miles in radius is "310,339,088,692 cubic miles," subtract that from our volume of a 4333 mile radius sphere and we get:


    30,425,671,553 cubic miles of space That's 30 billion, 425 million, 671 thousand, 553 cubic miles of space to clean of space junk. And thats not even every altitude of all satellites around Earth, if we were to count everything we'd find an area of space larger than the entire Earth.
    Good thing you're here to use your high school geometry to wow us and show that it's impossible. Is there anything constructive you have to add?
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  2. #22
    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
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    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Although yes, I do think we should be using the Lagrangian points for staging areas, there's a bit of a problem with your scenario. How would you even get to any of them without damaging your spacecraft? All 5 points in the Earth-Moon system are located quite a good bit further than any orbits that space junk would be located in.

    Absolutely no offense, but it seems like your idea is to be lazy. I don't see any tangible benefits to cluttering up our low earth orbits with debris.
    Are you saying that the orbits of the space debries are like uniformly distributed around the Earth and not concentrated around the equator? Shouldn't inertial orbital kinetics modify all space junk to concentrate more around the equator?

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    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    Are you saying that the orbits of the space debries are like uniformly distributed around the Earth and not concentrated around the equator? Shouldn't inertial orbital kinetics modify all space junk to concentrate more around the equator?
    No, space junk can not be uniformly distributed around the earth. It is also not concentrated around the equator either.

    What you are referring to is geostationary orbit. It is the only orbit that is directly over the equator at all times. Geostationary orbit is at 35,786 km, and that is the perfect-looking ring you see on the picture that's pretty far out from the earth. The only junk that will be in geostationary orbit is that which breaks off from satellites in that orbit.

    The space junk is all around the earth in a seemingly endless multitude of orbits. There is no "safe" escape from earth that contains no space debris as you have suggested. The more junk around the earth, the higher the chance of it impacting one of our crafts.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
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    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    No, space junk can not be uniformly distributed around the earth. It is also not concentrated around the equator either.

    What you are referring to is geostationary orbit. It is the only orbit that is directly over the equator at all times. Geostationary orbit is at 35,786 km, and that is the perfect-looking ring you see on the picture that's pretty far out from the earth. The only junk that will be in geostationary orbit is that which breaks off from satellites in that orbit.

    The space junk is all around the earth in a seemingly endless multitude of orbits. There is no "safe" escape from earth that contains no space debris as you have suggested. The more junk around the earth, the higher the chance of it impacting one of our crafts.

    This is an absolutely great picture.

    The situation is worse than I thought.

    Can we arm the space station with guns and shoot at these space junks? Although I begin to think that regular bullets won't really work very well, because they may fragment those debries even more. Even liquid drops impact as solids at those velocities.

    In practice, is there a minimum weight/size limit for those debries, under which they can be officially ignored? If yes, then we can still shoot them until they fragment under that limit. (But wouldn't it suck that you have done good works in the harshest of environments, and then when you become a debry at the end, they even shoot at you?)

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    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Two things:
    - Once you get the craft up to the speed of the debris, most of that momentum can be maintained. You don't start from zero with every new object. In fact, most objects within near the same orbit and size are probably going at close the same speed.
    - Solar power works much better in space outside of our atmosphere. The entire ISS is powered by solar panels. Such a salvage robot would more than likely use that as a power source, expending pretty much zero fuel.
    The stuff is traveling in all different directions. You'd be expending more fuel than all the world's space programs have to date.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    This is an absolutely great picture.

    The situation is worse than I thought.

    Can we arm the space station with guns and shoot at these space junks? Although I begin to think that regular bullets won't really work very well, because they may fragment those debries even more. Even liquid drops impact as solids at those velocities.

    In practice, is there a minimum weight/size limit for those debries, under which they can be officially ignored? If yes, then we can still shoot them until they fragment under that limit. (But wouldn't it suck that you have done good works in the harshest of environments, and then when you become a debry at the end, they even shoot at you?)
    Have you ever tried to shoot a bullet with another bullet?

    If by some miracle you managed to hit the object, you'd probably just fragment it further and now you have a bullet flying around in orbit. Bullets kill things because they poke a hole in them, they don't actually impart a lot of kinetic energy onto the target, and metal fragments aren't terribly concerned with having a hole in them.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  7. #27
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    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Have you ever tried to shoot a bullet with another bullet?

    If by some miracle you managed to hit the object, you'd probably just fragment it further and now you have a bullet flying around in orbit. Bullets kill things because they poke a hole in them, they don't actually impart a lot of kinetic energy onto the target, and metal fragments aren't terribly concerned with having a hole in them.
    Now I ran out of cheap ideas.

    We would need something like a space vacuum-cleaner, by possibly bending space to make the debries fall out of orbit and onto it or into the atmosphere.

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    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The stuff is traveling in all different directions. You'd be expending more fuel than all the world's space programs have to date.
    I know you probably missed it, but in post 19 I explained the concept of ion thrusters and how they are essentially fueless. They use energy from either solar or nuclear power and a small amount of gas that must very rarely be replenished.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 10-08-12 at 04:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  9. #29
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    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Here is my highly technical, detailed schematic on how to remove space debris.

    superbrilliantgeniusidea.jpg
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    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Australian Education System, FTW.

    There are six astronauts -- three Russians, two Americans and one from Japan -- onboard the orbiting laboratory.

    Read more: Space station to move to avoid debris - DC Breaking Local News Weather Sports FOX 5 WTTG
    Except there's not, Only 3. Expedition 32 crewmen returned on September 17, two weeks prior to this story so yeah.

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