Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 33

Thread: Space station to move to avoid debris

  1. #11
    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sharing time between UK and US.
    Last Seen
    11-19-12 @ 10:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    904

    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Space junk is becoming a very serious issue. There is an unbelievable amount of crap floating up there. Some young entrepreneur (I would do it if I had the funds) should launch a space corporation paid by contracts from various governments to salvage the debris in orbit.
    How about an engineering approach and use the problem instead of fighting it. What I mean is to accept that the amount of space debries will keep rising exponentially with time. (Especially with some future war.) That way, we could just put all/any junk into orbit for future mining when/if becomes useful. Also, a ring/sphere of dense enough reflective debry may reduce future energy costs too as reflecting sun-light into the night sky. After that, we all can use the 4 Lagrangian points for space work, where the kinetic stability minimizes the likelihood of collisions too. (A great benefit.)

  2. #12
    Finite and Precious
    Jredbaron96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With you.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    7,873
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Why don't we take all that space debris;


    And push it somewhere else!
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

  3. #13
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Space junk is becoming a very serious issue. There is an unbelievable amount of crap floating up there. Some young entrepreneur (I would do it if I had the funds) should launch a space corporation paid by contracts from various governments to salvage the debris in orbit.
    Get a contract from the United Nations to do it.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  4. #14
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,554

    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Get a contract from the United Nations to do it.
    Not a bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Most of these things are tiny and moving extremely fast.
    Of course they are, but speed is relative, you get your craft moving to near the same speed and it becomes exceptionally easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    I would like to know what young entrepreneur would have the funds?
    Elon Musk, the creator of Pay Pal, Tesla Motors, and SpaceX.
    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    How about an engineering approach and use the problem instead of fighting it. What I mean is to accept that the amount of space debries will keep rising exponentially with time. (Especially with some future war.) That way, we could just put all/any junk into orbit for future mining when/if becomes useful. Also, a ring/sphere of dense enough reflective debry may reduce future energy costs too as reflecting sun-light into the night sky. After that, we all can use the 4 Lagrangian points for space work, where the kinetic stability minimizes the likelihood of collisions too. (A great benefit.)
    Although yes, I do think we should be using the Lagrangian points for staging areas, there's a bit of a problem with your scenario. How would you even get to any of them without damaging your spacecraft? All 5 points in the Earth-Moon system are located quite a good bit further than any orbits that space junk would be located in.

    Absolutely no offense, but it seems like your idea is to be lazy. I don't see any tangible benefits to cluttering up our low earth orbits with debris.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  5. #15
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,554

    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Expending enormous amounts of fuel per two-inch piece of debris.

    http://orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov/ph...es/LEO1280.jpg
    Two things:
    - Once you get the craft up to the speed of the debris, most of that momentum can be maintained. You don't start from zero with every new object. In fact, most objects within near the same orbit and size are probably going at close the same speed.
    - Solar power works much better in space outside of our atmosphere. The entire ISS is powered by solar panels. Such a salvage robot would more than likely use that as a power source, expending pretty much zero fuel.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  6. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ft. Campbell, KY
    Last Seen
    12-31-14 @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    12,177

    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Two things:
    - Once you get the craft up to the speed of the debris, most of that momentum can be maintained. You don't start from zero with every new object. In fact, most objects within near the same orbit and size are probably going at close the same speed.
    - Solar power works much better in space outside of our atmosphere. The entire ISS is powered by solar panels. Such a salvage robot would more than likely use that as a power source, expending pretty much zero fuel.
    All of the momentum will be maintained, this is space there is no air resistance. Picking up debris piece by piece would require constant changes in speed and trajectory, even if the same orbit held several debris at the same speed they would not be in the same place. Your "garage truck in space" would match the speed of one piece, capture it, but then it would be going the same speed as all the other pieces in that orbit according to your theory, therefore it would never gain on any other piece without slowing down, and once it slowed down it would have to speed up again to capture a second piece.

    Also you vastly underestimate the amount of space that is up there, even in low earth orbit.

    Lastly, you can't use solar powered engines to move your spacecraft without some kind of fuel to go along with it. A battery, which is what the solar panels charge, doesn't generate force like burning fuel does, a battery won't be able to physically push a object.

  7. #17
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    04-23-17 @ 05:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    15,429
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    The Earth is that neighbor with the broken down cars and pink flamingos in the yard.
    See, this is why we need solar system HOA's. Sure, you won't be allowed to put up an innocuous satellite, or paint your moon whatever color you want. But it would keep the riff-raf out of the neighborhood.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ft. Campbell, KY
    Last Seen
    12-31-14 @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    12,177

    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Lets figure out how much space is really up, and lets start with the volume of the Earth:

    Here's the formula for volume of a sphere, I realize the Earth isn't a perfect sphere but its the best we can do:
    e678db0137d57dddf5d66f02a6fdf4ef.png
    Volume of a sphere calculator

    So all we need then is the radius of the Earth which Wikipedia tells me is 3963 miles. So input that into the formula and we get "260,711,882,973 cubic miles."

    Now low Earth orbit is 1243 miles(2000km) above the surface, but lets stick with a smaller number for the sake of not creating massive numbers. We'll go with 370 miles because below that is the most crowded space, based off this wikipedia source:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...laltitudes.jpg

    So lets add 370 miles to our formula and do it again, that gives us "340,764,760,245 cubic miles." Now that's the volume of the Earth plus 370 miles extra into space, but that's obviously not the number we are looking for because it counts the Earth and its atmosphere where obviously there is no space junk. So looking at the last source we see Sputnik flew at an altitude of 133 miles, I don't know if there's anything below that but lets go with that number. So what we need to find is the volume of space in a sphere that is 4333 miles in radius(3963+370) from its outward most point along the radius (4333) to 133 miles below that (4200).

    Using the sphere volume formula again a sphere of 4200 miles in radius is "310,339,088,692 cubic miles," subtract that from our volume of a 4333 mile radius sphere and we get:


    30,425,671,553 cubic miles of space That's 30 billion, 425 million, 671 thousand, 553 cubic miles of space to clean of space junk. And thats not even every altitude of all satellites around Earth, if we were to count everything we'd find an area of space larger than the entire Earth.

  9. #19
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,554

    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    All of the momentum will be maintained, this is space there is no air resistance.
    Not quite. Although there is little resistance in most earth orbits, earth's atmosphere still produces drag. The lower the orbit, the higher the drag. The ISS has to periodically adjust their orbit due to degradation from atmospheric drag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Lastly, you can't use solar powered engines to move your spacecraft without some kind of fuel to go along with it. A battery, which is what the solar panels charge, doesn't generate force like burning fuel does, a battery won't be able to physically push a object.
    Then you are apparently unfamiliar with ion thrusters. Using the solar panels and battery banks, an ion thruster can provide propulsion for attitude and velocity changes and is for the most part completely fueless. It does however use a special gas for the process to work, but that musn't be replaced for a very, very long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Picking up debris piece by piece would require constant changes in speed and trajectory, even if the same orbit held several debris at the same speed they would not be in the same place. Your "garage truck in space" would match the speed of one piece, capture it, but then it would be going the same speed as all the other pieces in that orbit according to your theory, therefore it would never gain on any other piece without slowing down, and once it slowed down it would have to speed up again to capture a second piece.
    Listen, this isn't rocket science. Well, I guess it is. There are a lot of ways for a craft to move around in orbit. The spacecraft could be equipped with ion thrusters on all sides in order to adjust it's position and speed. Ion thrusters do not provide a substantial amount of thrust, and are slow, but we're also not in a terrible hurry. In order to slow the spacecraft, instead of using just thrusters, sails could be opened to increase it's surface area, increasing drag by the atmosphere, slowing it relative to the space junk which mostly has a very very small surface area, and therefore very little drag. This of course would only be effective in LEO.

    We can already track the majority of the space debris from satellites and earth-based radars. Furthermore the robots could be equipped with radar and other sensors to hone in on garbage.

    There would not be one robot, there would be a swarm of robots moving about cleaning up our orbit. This is not out of the realm of possible for a corporation to do. There has been a recent birth of many private space corporations that have made great progress in leaps and bounds. There is even a company with serious plans for asteroid mining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Also you vastly underestimate the amount of space that is up there, even in low earth orbit.
    Was this condescending statement, which made an assumption about my knowledge of space necessary? Did it add to the conversation in some way?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  10. #20
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,261

    Re: Space station to move to avoid debris

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Get a contract from the United Nations to do it.
    They couldn't afford it.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •