UC Davis in $1M Pepper Spray Settlement

Loki97 said:

Doesn't surprise me a bit. If you read my qualification of those who wouldn't like a union environment, I can see you fitting it perfectly with your obvious adoration of authority and abuse of power. I have met plenty of people like you and the name we had for them was for less polite than brown noser.

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Nice try, not even close. In fact my main objection has always come down to objecting to the authoritarian lack of choice. And no, obviously you haven't met many people outside your own brown nosing crew who won't object to losing freedom as long as you all think it's cool.

Deuce said:

Your kid would cheer on police brutality and would oppose first amendment rights? That's sad. Maybe you can sit down and talk with her about that.

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No, my daughter would cheer the non-violent clearing away of those who are illegally disrupting her educational environment. I checked with her, and she would. This isn't a first amendment issue, try reading it first.

or the right of the people peaceably to assemble

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clownboy said:

Nice try, not even close. In fact my main objection has always come down to objecting to the authoritarian lack of choice. And no, obviously you haven't met many people outside your own brown nosing crew who won't object to losing freedom as long as you all think it's cool.

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Please, that story might work on the dullards you associate with on a daily basis but you already gave yourself away by fawning all over cops who have been found legally to have gone too far. It's always amusing how conservatives feel the right to hide behind the law whenever convenient and yet ignore any court decision that doesn't suit them. I also don't think you have much of a career ahead of you as a psychic either since the last term anyone who knows me would use to describe me is brown noser. I imagine the real problem you had as a union member was that you were considered a pompous blowhard by the other members and treated accordingly.

A settlement is not a court decision. A settlement means it was worth 1.25 mil to the college to not get more deceiving coverage on the issue and pretend the kids were innocently sitting there in peaceful protest. The court makes no ruling when there is a settlement.

Keridan said:

A settlement is not a court decision. A settlement means it was worth 1.25 mil to the college to not get more deceiving coverage on the issue and pretend the kids were innocently sitting there in peaceful protest. The court makes no ruling when there is a settlement.

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So explain how the kids WEREN'T innocently sitting there in peaceful protest.

Voltaire X said:

So explain how the kids WEREN'T innocently sitting there in peaceful protest.

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Or you could read the thread and watch the videos.

Loki97 said:

Please, that story might work on the dullards you associate with on a daily basis but you already gave yourself away by fawning all over cops who have been found legally to have gone too far. It's always amusing how conservatives feel the right to hide behind the law whenever convenient and yet ignore any court decision that doesn't suit them. I also don't think you have much of a career ahead of you as a psychic either since the last term anyone who knows me would use to describe me is brown noser. I imagine the real problem you had as a union member was that you were considered a pompous blowhard by the other members and treated accordingly.

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Okay, I get it, you have a false impression of who I am, and I have a false impression of who you are. Do you have the capacity to back up your arguments on this thread without going there? How about you give it a try.

My main objection to unions is shared by many folks - the requirement to join, the requirement to have someone else represent my interests (and make me pay for it) when I want to represent my own interests myself. Now, I realize most folks don't want to take the time or put in the effort to represent themselves and are much more comfortable in the herd. Those are your happy union employees.

Voltaire X said:

So explain how the kids WEREN'T innocently sitting there in peaceful protest.

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They were engaged in a disruption and without permit. Why is a permit necessary? They balance competing rights. The right of assembly vs the right of freedom of movement.

Keridan said:

A settlement is not a court decision. A settlement means it was worth 1.25 mil to the college to not get more deceiving coverage on the issue and pretend the kids were innocently sitting there in peaceful protest. The court makes no ruling when there is a settlement.

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It is the civil equivalent of pleading "no contest". They did not win their case. The cop who did the spraying was fired and is counting his blessings that he isn't facing criminal charges. They settled because if they had continued they would have lost and it would have cost them even more.

clownboy said:

Okay, I get it, you have a false impression of who I am, and I have a false impression of who you are. Do you have the capacity to back up your arguments on this thread without going there? How about you give it a try.

My main objection to unions is shared by many folks - the requirement to join, the requirement to have someone else represent my interests (and make me pay for it) when I want to represent my own interests myself. Now, I realize most folks don't want to take the time or put in the effort to represent themselves and are much more comfortable in the herd. Those are your happy union employees.

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The difference is that on your own as a single employee you have no real rights to pursue your interests. A boss can fire you just because they don't like you personally or pass you over repeatedly for promotion and, unless you are part of a protected class, you have no recourse.That's why I believe that those who object to the protections a union affords all its members are more likely interested in prostituting rather than representing themselves to management in the hopes of rapid and unmerited advancement. You also mention dues. I have never seen a situation where the dues a union requires aren't more then compensated by the increased wages and benefits a union offers. One big difference between our experiences is you seem to be talking primarily about professional unions while my experience and concern is more with trade unions.

Loki97 said:

It is the civil equivalent of pleading "no contest". They did not win their case. The cop who did the spraying was fired and is counting his blessings that he isn't facing criminal charges. They settled because if they had continued they would have lost and it would have cost them even more.

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Actually, the only thing it is an admission to is that the best case scenario in court was worse than taking this settlement on the chin.

The officer getting fired is appropriate. He was instructed (I can't find this link, but I remember reading it) not to make arrests, which he did and he used the pepper spray in a VERY inappropriate manner contrary to instructions, including considerable over-use. The lack of criminal charges are not surprising. A case could be made for excessive force, but it wouldn't much be worth it.

clownboy said:

They were engaged in a disruption and without permit. Why is a permit necessary? They balance competing rights. The right of assembly vs the right of freedom of movement.

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There's no way you actually think these kids were preventing people from moving around the campus. You're just being ridiculous.

Voltaire X said:

There's no way you actually think these kids were preventing people from moving around the campus. You're just being ridiculous.

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Have you ever been to the UCD campus? I have, and you're full of it. They used have permitted "demonstrations" all the time and they do impede movement and disrupt classes. That's why they stopped allowing these demonstrations so much. The legitimate students were complaining and taking their education dollars elsewhere.

I did not agree with the pepper spraying of those kids...but the 1 million settlement is pure bull****, imo.


I thought those kids were doing what they were doing, and willing to RISK to do so...for a CAUSE?


Taking the money invalidates them, makes them nothing more than whores.


I hope Anonymous now posts each of THEIR home addresses an email, and phone numbers and such, so I, and others who feel as I do, can hound them for a bit about it, like they did for the officer.