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Iran is heating up . . . [W:259]

sharon said:
That doesn't make sense either.. Jews have lived in Persia for 2500 years and would still be there if not for Israel..

Look:

In July 2007, Iran's Jewish community rejected financial emigration incentives to leave Iran. Offers ranging from 5,000–30,000 British pounds, financed by a wealthy expatriate Jew with the support of the Israeli government, were turned down by Iran's Jewish leaders.[

Persian Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Mmmm-hmmmm. Yeah sure Sharon. Okay, Iran loves the Jewish people. Give me a break!!!
 
sharon said:
That doesn't make sense either.. Jews have lived in Persia for 2500 years and would still be there if not for Israel..

Look:

In July 2007, Iran's Jewish community rejected financial emigration incentives to leave Iran. Offers ranging from 5,000–30,000 British pounds, financed by a wealthy expatriate Jew with the support of the Israeli government, were turned down by Iran's Jewish leaders.[

Persian Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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You must be blind because you can't see Sharon.
 
Ikari said:
Yeeeha! Good ol' forever war! Can't have a fascist government without a forever war.
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I'm sure there are other ways we could go about handling the situation.
 
ChrisL said:
Mmmm-hmmmm. Yeah sure Sharon. Okay, Iran loves the Jewish people. Give me a break!!!
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Jews lived in Libya, Egypt, Iran, Iraq.. and for the most part they were pretty affluent and successful.. They were merchants, importers-exporters, own small factories and employed Arabs. IMO their leaving between 1948 and 1973 was a real loss.

Even now.. the Jewish merchant families of Bahrain are successful. One of the daughers is a lawyer and an Ambassador.
 
Those Israeli assassins are quite effective. Maybe we should take some cues from them.
 
It's just funny Sharon. If Iran is in a "world of hurt" then I suppose they should suspend their nuclear program.
 
sharon said:
Jews lived in Libya, Egypt, Iran, Iraq.. and for the most part they were pretty affluent and successful.. They were merchants, importers-exporters, own small factories and employed Arabs. IMO their leaving between 1948 and 1973 was a real loss.

Even now.. the Jewish merchant families of Bahrain are successful. One of the daughers is a lawyer and an Ambassador.
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Are you saying that Iran doesn't practice religious discrimination?
 
ChrisL said:
It's just funny Sharon. If Iran is in a "world of hurt" then I suppose they should suspend their nuclear program.
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I agree.. They should stop nuclear weapons development.. Nobody wins if there is an attack. They most definitely need nuclear power and desalination.. as does Jordan. How can their security be assured?
 
ChrisL said:
I'm sure there are other ways we could go about handling the situation.
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There are, I just don't trust our government to take it.
 
Religion in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Complaints about religious freedom in Iran revolve around the alleged persecution of the Bahá'í Faith (which is headquartered and from Israel) unequal rights of non-Muslim religions, and the forbidding of conversion from Islam to other religions. The Bahá'í Faith is not recognized and is claimed by some to be persecuted.[51] There have been reports of imprisonment, harassment, intimidation, discrimination, and murder based on religious beliefs.[93]
Hudud statutes grant different punishments to Muslims and non-Muslims for the same crime. In the case of adultery, for example, a Muslim man who is convicted of committing adultery with a Muslim woman receives 100 lashes; the sentence for a non-Muslim man convicted of adultery with a Muslim woman is death.[94] In 2004, inequality of "blood money" (diyeh) was eliminated, and the amount paid by a perpetrator for the death or wounding a Christian, Jew, or Zoroastrian man, was made the same as that for a Muslim. However, the International Religious Freedom Report reports that Baha'is were not included in the provision and their blood is considered Mobah, (i.e. it can be spilled with impunity).[3]

Conversion from Islam to another religion (apostasy), is prohibited and may be punishable by death. Article 23 of the constitution states, "the investigation of individuals' beliefs is forbidden, and no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief." But another article, 167, gives judges the discretion "to deliver his judgment on the basis of authoritative Islamic sources and authentic fatwa (rulings issued by qualified clerical jurists)." The founder of the Islamic Republic, Islamic cleric Ruhollah Khomeini, who was a grand Ayatollah, ruled "that the penalty for conversion from Islam, or apostasy, is death."[95]

At least two Iranians - Hashem Aghajari and Hassan Yousefi Eshkevari - have been arrested and charged with apostasy (though not executed), not for converting to another faith but for statements and/or activities deemed by courts of the Islamic Republic to be in violation of Islam, and that appear to outsiders to be Islamic reformist political expression.[96] Hashem Aghajari, was found guilty of apostasy for a speech urging Iranians to "not blindly follow" Islamic clerics;[97] Hassan Youssefi Eshkevari was charged with apostasy for attending the 'Iran After the Elections' Conference in Berlin Germany which was disrupted by anti-regime demonstrators.[98]

And this is just information based on what people have found out or what Iran will let us know. There are PLENTY of things going on in Iran that are kept hush-hush. Anyone denying this must be blinder than a bat.
 
ChrisL said:
Are you saying that Iran doesn't practice religious discrimination?
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No.. I am sure they do.. The problem with Iran and the real power lies with the Republican Guard.

Seems to me that they are as bad or worse than the old SAVAK.
 
sharon said:
No.. I am sure they do.. The problem with Iran and the real power lies with the Republican Guard.

Seems to me that they are as bad or worse than the old SAVAK.
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Who operate under the direction of who Sharon?
 
sharon said:
I wonder who is leading whom... I have little tolerance for Shia.. so I admit a bias.
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Now you're just being dishonest.
 
Wiggen said:
If you hate the west and 'western style democracy' so much, why do you post here? Other than to turn every post into an opportunity for you to rant about the superiority of Turkey, I mean.
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you should read again my posts ,or improve your english :roll:

cpwill tried to own all kind of democratic values as the biggest inventions of the west.no ,not every freedom belongs to the west.thats what I mean.YES I know we gained lots of westerner modern values after the revolution.but it doesnt mean we are modern by means of the west..you all know your number one west colonized this world ,thats why they dislike turks ,we are the only one to whom they couldnt do this thing
 
ChrisL said:
Now you're just being dishonest.
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About what? Are there more Mullahs or more Republican Guard?

I have known many Shia who were OK and some who were very moderate and successful.. but I don't understand the uber Shia..
 
sharon said:
About what? Are there more Mullahs or more Republican Guard?

I have known many Shia who were OK and some who were very moderate and successful.. but I don't understand the uber Shia..
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The Republican Guard is operating under the direction of the mullahs Sharon. The mullahs are the leaders of the country and they say what goes. Ahmed is just a puppet of the mullahs. He will probably keep "winning" elections as long as he does their bidding. It's just a "hidden" dictatorship in Iran.
 
ChrisL said:
The Republican Guard is operating under the direction of the mullahs Sharon. The mullahs are the leaders of the country and they say what goes. Ahmed is just a puppet of the mullahs. He will probably keep "winning" elections as long as he does their bidding. It's just a "hidden" dictatorship in Iran.
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Oh I know that..

All last year Amanutjob was butting heads with the Mullahs.. so whether he will be reelected or not is anyone's guess.
 
Chris-
I don't think you state the focus of Iran's 'hatred' precisely. Iran doesn't want the Zionists in the Middle East to have an independent state at the expense of the A-rab inhabitants. THAT has been the focus.

Now Iran took to heart being called part of the 'Axis of E-Vile' by a former wahtime settin' President after helping us by turning over many of the most wanted from Afghanistan. BushII's declaration of attacking ANY nation he felt MIGHT be a threat to the USofA didn't help any. We tend to see the world as we THINK it is, rather than how the world sees us.

I don't think anyone thinks the current regime is all sweetness and light, but thanks to knocking the Sunni grip off of Iraq we have made Iran both a major regional power and rival of the Saudis.

The rivalries, power struggles and regime change attempts on or at Iran since the 50's has truly warped what was once a promising democracy. Seems the more we attempt to shape Iran the more warped the region becomes. Perhaps it is time to stop thinking we can shape the world to our ideal.
 
sharon said:
That doesn't make sense either.. Jews have lived in Persia for 2500 years and would still be there if not for Israel..

Look:

In July 2007, Iran's Jewish community rejected financial emigration incentives to leave Iran. Offers ranging from 5,000–30,000 British pounds, financed by a wealthy expatriate Jew with the support of the Israeli government, were turned down by Iran's Jewish leaders.
Click to expand...



sharon said:
Jews lived in Libya, Egypt, Iran, Iraq.. and for the most part they were pretty affluent and successful.. They were merchants, importers-exporters, own small factories and employed Arabs. IMO their leaving between 1948 and 1973 was a real loss.

Even now.. the Jewish merchant families of Bahrain are successful. One of the daughers is a lawyer and an Ambassador.
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Who would that be and is that representative of the Jewish population in Iran?

This excerpt casts a different light than what you would portray....The Jews of Iran: "Despite the official distinction between "Jews," "Zionists," and "Israel," the most common accusation the Jews encounter is that of maintaining contacts with Zionists. The Jewish community does enjoy a measure of religious freedom but is faced with constant suspicion of cooperating with the Zionist state and with "imperialistic America" — both such activities are punishable by death. Jews who apply for a passport to travel abroad must do so in a special bureau and are immediately put under surveillance. The government does not generally allow all members of a family to travel abroad at the same time to prevent Jewish emigration. Again, the Jews live under the status of dhimmi, with the restrictions imposed on religious minorities. Jewish leaders fear government reprisals if they draw attention to official mistreatment of their community."

Jews of Iran
 
notquiteright said:
Chris-
I don't think you state the focus of Iran's 'hatred' precisely. Iran doesn't want the Zionists in the Middle East to have an independent state at the expense of the A-rab inhabitants. THAT has been the focus.

Now Iran took to heart being called part of the 'Axis of E-Vile' by a former wahtime settin' President after helping us by turning over many of the most wanted from Afghanistan. BushII's declaration of attacking ANY nation he felt MIGHT be a threat to the USofA didn't help any. We tend to see the world as we THINK it is, rather than how the world sees us.

I don't think anyone thinks the current regime is all sweetness and light, but thanks to knocking the Sunni grip off of Iraq we have made Iran both a major regional power and rival of the Saudis.

The rivalries, power struggles and regime change attempts on or at Iran since the 50's has truly warped what was once a promising democracy. Seems the more we attempt to shape Iran the more warped the region becomes. Perhaps it is time to stop thinking we can shape the world to our ideal.
Click to expand...

Constant threats have a predictable affect.

I just hate that if Iran gets the bomb, then Saudi Arabia will also have to get the bomb.. an insufferable situation since the Saudis have been insisting on a nuke free ME for 5 decades.
 
Yes we will be marching on to glorious victory as we have in Iraq, Pakistan and Afganistan in the name of mom's apple pie, hot dogs, baseball and "I Love Lucy". Yes, my fellow Americans yhere is no cause to hideous for you beloved leaders to send young fathers and mothers to their early deaths. After all, we politicians are not going so why so WE worrry?
The sooner we ram out Judeo Christian/democratic beliefs down the throats of the ENTIRE WORLD the sooner we can all live in peace. Remember, it is us you are voting for in November.
 
notquiteright said:
Chris-
I don't think you state the focus of Iran's 'hatred' precisely. Iran doesn't want the Zionists in the Middle East to have an independent state at the expense of the A-rab inhabitants. THAT has been the focus.

Now Iran took to heart being called part of the 'Axis of E-Vile' by a former wahtime settin' President after helping us by turning over many of the most wanted from Afghanistan. BushII's declaration of attacking ANY nation he felt MIGHT be a threat to the USofA didn't help any. We tend to see the world as we THINK it is, rather than how the world sees us.

I don't think anyone thinks the current regime is all sweetness and light, but thanks to knocking the Sunni grip off of Iraq we have made Iran both a major regional power and rival of the Saudis.

The rivalries, power struggles and regime change attempts on or at Iran since the 50's has truly warped what was once a promising democracy. Seems the more we attempt to shape Iran the more warped the region becomes. Perhaps it is time to stop thinking we can shape the world to our ideal.
Click to expand...

I would like to see us become more energy independent and wash our hands of the entire region, but I also cannot forget the faces of the protesters, many of whom were killed, in Iran. How they shut down all means of communication, how they kidnap Americans and other foreigners and hold them for ransom. Let's face it, they are one of the biggest warts on the world today.
 
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