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Thread: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

  1. #231
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    Re: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Suit yourself.. All non-compliant protestants and Catholics should simply quit..
    No, If you want separation of Church and State, then keep the State out of religion. Simple.

    Heck 98% of Catholics ignore the BS about birth control.
    That is for the Church to address...Using it as some justification shows how utterly weak your case is.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

    Religion need to stay out of denying their employees access to BC. It's no business of the Church.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

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    Re: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, If you want separation of Church and State, then keep the State out of religion. Simple.

    That is for the Church to address...Using it as some justification shows how utterly weak your case is.
    The State doesn't care about religion, just equality in healthcare insurance.

    Why are you so threatened?

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    Re: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Well, Sharia law only applies to voluntary civil arbitration between Muslims.. so the issue is a bit of silliness. Devout Catholics want a dispensation from the church for an annulment and pious Jews want a Get for divorce.

    Its no threat to State or Federal law. What it does do is relieve the court dockets a bit.

    I wouldn't give it a second thought.

    Arbitration has been around for decades.
    Why Sharon why?

    A good example is the case in NJ where the husband forced sex with his wife the court viewed "a conflict between the criminal law and religious precepts,” the appellate court held that the defendant knowingly engaged in non-consensual sexual intercourse and thus could not be excused for his religious beliefs."

    There was a case in new Jersey where Muslim beat his wife then raped her. The husband was Muslim and wanted religious law to be controlling this situation and the court denied the wife a restraining order. The Appeals court reversed the lower court and granted the restraining order stating reasoning that religious law does not exempt the husband from criminal law.

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    Re: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    The State doesn't care about religion, just equality in healthcare insurance.
    No, Obama thinks he doesn't have to abide by the Constitution he swore to uphold. He thinks that if there is something, or someone in his way to getting what he wants, he can dictate it be done around Congress, by either fiat, or bully tactic.

    He is America's first dictator.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    I take Andres Serrano, the artist, at his word when he claims that the photograph"alludes to a perceived commercializing or cheapening of Christian icons in contemporary culture." Piss Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Let's look at the photo:

    Attachment 67135002

    I would like to see an artist made print of the photo to see it in the color and saturation that Serrano intended. This scan probably does not do the original justice.

    I think the image is well composed and has a soft quality that makes the crucified Christ look even more tragic than it would out of the urine. The lighting particularly is well chosen. To me, the photo says that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross retains its dignity, perhaps it is even enhanced, by the degradation and marginalization of the crucifixion in popular culture.

    All Christians know that persecution is coming, because it has been foretold. We must all expect to suffer for His name. Serrano, whether intentionally or unintentionally, has made an artistic statement about that very reality. Through it all, Christ's sacrifice retains its deep significance, and our salvation is not diminished one bit by the slings and arrows of those who hate or trivialize the word of God.
    dude's dehydrated. somebody, get that man an 8 oz glass of water.

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    Re: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Religion need to stay out of denying their employees access to BC. It's no business of the Church.
    Protecting life is every business of the Church.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh please tell me how I am effected...? We are just having a conversation revolving around opinion, no?



    Just taking a guess, but like say, a cross on a hill?



    Sorry Connery, you are DEAD WRONG!



    Care to try again?
    yea sure....

    No one can be legally bound by religious law because religious laws cannot be espoused by the government. If the parties agree to it, religious laws cannot conflict with criminal or civil laws under the First Amendment, it would be enforceable within the religious community. "(See Watson v. Jones, 80 U.S. 679 (1872) (“All who united themselves to such a body [the general church] do so with an implied consent to [its] government, and are bound to submit to it.”)."

    Foreign or religious law can and should be used in certain situations. "For example, parties to a contract enjoy a great deal of leeway to establish binding agreements requiring contractual disputes to be submitted to arbitration. In their arbitration agreement, the disputing parties can bind themselves to use a particular arbitrator. Courts have held that arbitration agreements providing for what is commonly referred to as “biblically based mediation” (relying on specified principles of the Christian Bible) are enforceable."

    There have been attempts to use sharia law where domestic relations are at issue. For example, "sharia in domestic courts is S.D. v. M.J.R., a New Jersey domestic violence case. In that dispute, a Muslim wife filed for a restraining order against her husband after several instances of physical abuse and non-consensual sexual intercourse. Though the trial court found that the defendant had engaged in sexual acts that were clearly against his wife’s wishes, it did not grant a final restraining order because the husband lacked the requisite criminal intent to commit sexual assault. This decision was based on the theory that the defendant acted based on his religious belief that a husband may demand to have intercourse with his wife whenever he desired. On appeal, the New Jersey Appellate Division overturned the trial court’s decision and remanded the case to the lower court for entry of a final restraining order. Noting that the case involved “a conflict between the criminal law and religious precepts,” the appellate court held that the defendant knowingly engaged in non-consensual sexual intercourse and thus could not be excused for his religious beliefs."


    Also, the government is prohibited from interfering with religious activities. "Proposals to ban sharia raise a serious dilemma for legal scholars and jurists because the composition of sharia remains debated among various Islamic sects and scholars. Without an authoritative body of law with specific parameters, courts may find themselves faced with a need to determine the precise principles of sharia and thus offer judgment on the content of a religious doctrine, which is generally impermissible under the First Amendment."

    "In 1872, the Court recognized that matters of religious doctrine should be determined within the authority of the particular church and should be separate from any secular legal interpretation: The law knows no heresy, and is committed to the support of no dogma, the establishment of no sect. … "

    All who united themselves to such a body [the general church] do so with an implied consent to [its] government, and are bound to submit to it. But it would be a vain consent and would lead to total subversion of such religious bodies, if any one aggrieved by one of their decisions could appeal to the secular courts and have them [sic] reversed. It is of the essence of these religious unions, and of their right to establish tribunals for the decision of questions arising among themselves, that those decisions should be binding in all cases of ecclesiastical cognizance, subject only to such appeals as the organism itself provides for*.


    Thus, the Court established the principle that determinations of church doctrine and practice were to be free of government control well before it had even developed other aspects of its First Amendment jurisprudence. That general principle has since been cited by the Court in a number of First Amendment cases involving challenges of government interference in internal church matters."


    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41824.pdf

    *(see Watson v. Jones, 80 U.S. 679 (1872), quoted in Presbyterian Church v. Hull Memorial Presbyterian Church, 393 U.S. 440, 446 (1969). See also Gonzalez v. Archbishop, 280 U.S. 1 (1929) (“In the absence of fraud, collusion, or arbitrariness, the decisions of the proper church tribunals on matters purely ecclesiastical, although affecting civil rights, are accepted in litigation before the secular courts as conclusive, because the parties in interest made them so by contract or otherwise.”).

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    Re: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Why Sharon why?

    A good example is the case in NJ where the husband forced sex with his wife the court viewed "a conflict between the criminal law and religious precepts,” the appellate court held that the defendant knowingly engaged in non-consensual sexual intercourse and thus could not be excused for his religious beliefs."

    There was a case in new Jersey where Muslim beat his wife then raped her. The husband was Muslim and wanted religious law to be controlling this situation and the court denied the wife a restraining order. The Appeals court reversed the lower court and granted the restraining order stating reasoning that religious law does not exempt the husband from criminal law.
    Sharia law forbids a man to rape his wife, but grants her the right to reasonable sexual satisfaction from her husband... If not, its grounds for her to seek divorce with child support and child custody.

    Weird, huh?

  10. #240
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    Re: Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The movie raised critical thought about how we interact with religion.

    The stupid picture was just meant to demean Christians.



    See how BS personal interpretation based on ones personal agenda works?
    At least we can understand Sharon's point of view, wishing as he does for the jackboot of Islamist totalitarianism to stomp upon the human face forever.

    Why winston is being similarly hypocritical is anybody's guess.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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