• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

Politics aside, I always thought "Piss Christ" was kind of beautiful. Honestly, if you didn't know it was piss, wouldn't you think it's kind of a beautiful photograph? That aside, the message behind "Piss Christ" has been made clear by previous posters and I agree that it is right on. I don't think it's an insult to Jesus or his message, but rather what people have done with his message.
 
Politics aside, I always thought "Piss Christ" was kind of beautiful. Honestly, if you didn't know it was piss, wouldn't you think it's kind of a beautiful photograph? That aside, the message behind "Piss Christ" has been made clear by previous posters and I agree that it is right on. I don't think it's an insult to Jesus or his message, but rather what people have done with his message.


Well, that's wonderful...Hey, I got an idea....Let's send you and the others over to the ME so that you can waive your hand of reason over the angry demonstrations there...What do ya think? Hell, all you'd have to do is let them know that the video maker was an artist, and his interpretation of what he produced is benign and really doesn't insult their faith, but rather is a commentary on what Muslims themselves are doing to it....Yeah....That'll work....:roll:
 
Obviously Christians, if they don't wish to see this kind of thing anymore, should simply riot and kill people since apparently acting like complete savages and in an entirely illogical manner is justification for denying other people freedom of speech.

Shut up! That may work, but it can't be encouraged
(I know you were being facetious in your endorsement, as I am in my condemnation of you in this post)

But yes, it's kinda odd that people would not give Christians the reprieve they'll give others over the same subject line. Irrational response cannot be held to another individual. My question is....why would anyone go to see a jar of someone else's piss? I'm as atheist as the next guy, but I don't really give a **** and I certainly don't want to view various jars of bodily fluids.
 
I just do not understand this crap.

Honestly, only comes from people who have a beef with Muslims.

Certainly J-mac and you do.

How the hell is it an apology, for the government to say "Hey We don't endorse a Islam being mocked in this manner" because the United States has a great deal more to gain by saying such a thing than they have to gain from ignorant islamophobes who associate the few violent muslims with the rest of them.

That's then taken by far right wingers as "Apologizing to terrorists" when he's turning them into chicken Tika using drones every other week.

I don't even know what universe you people live in... honestly.

This isn't about apologies, this is about you being pissed off that there aren't more people sticking it to Islam because you have a problem with it, Obama administration in particular.

There are a couple of things wrong with it. First of all there are many instances of religions other than Islam and especially Chrisitian being disrespected in film, speaches, books, etc., It happens all of the time. We don't need to treat Muslims special with respect to this issue just because they go nuts and kill people over it. There should be nothing but condemnation of the violence and no apologies or excuses. We need to support our way of life and not the dictates of radical religions overseas. And recognozing as you have that the real issue is their dissatisfaction with our foreign policy, apologize for that or again simply condemn the violence.
 
Non-issue is a non-issue. The Bush admin also denounced things objectionable to Islam (in 2006, the cartoons) while never saying a thing on things that offended Christians. I never heard a single conservative say he was weak for doing so or criticize him for apologizing for America. They are only acting butt-hurt now for political points. Nothing new from the "Do as I say, not as I do" crowd.
 
Well, that's wonderful...Hey, I got an idea....Let's send you and the others over to the ME so that you can waive your hand of reason over the angry demonstrations there...What do ya think? Hell, all you'd have to do is let them know that the video maker was an artist, and his interpretation of what he produced is benign and really doesn't insult their faith, but rather is a commentary on what Muslims themselves are doing to it....Yeah....That'll work....:roll:

Yeah, because that's the same thing. :roll:
 
Explain the difference smart guy? Snarky response, and roll eyes smiley's don't cut it.

There's a world of difference. First of all, the anti-Muslim film is very clearly anti-Muslim. That and it's also a film. Piss Christ, whether you like it or not, is art. It may not be your kind of art, but that doesn't change the fact that it is. Not only that, but the artist's intentions behind the piece have been explained. I'd say that it's an insult to people who do horrible thing in the name of Jesus and who essentially piss all over him. I fail to see how it is an insult to Jesus. Feel free to interpret it how you want to, though. Also, the people who are upset about the Muslim film are in a completely different culture that isn't a civilized as our culture is. Honor is an important thing there. This doesn't justify the violence, but it explains it. So for you to compare the two situations is completely ****ing ridiculous.
 
Obviously Christians, if they don't wish to see this kind of thing anymore, should simply riot and kill people since apparently acting like complete savages and in an entirely illogical manner is justification for denying other people freedom of speech.

Well, Christians aren't rioting and burning cars over it, and that's a point in their favor, I guess. But goddamn if they aren't acting like little bitches over it every chance they get.

I seriously don't know who Christians are expecting sympathy from. Not me, I hope. I'm Jewish-Atheist, two categories who aren't even allowed to be president. Christians own this country, and have the luxury of getting bitchy when a piece of offending artwork is made.

We don't get to hold high government offices. So, I hope you'll pardon me if I say in response, bite me.
 
The biggest lie told about this piece it's that is an attack on Jesus. If anything it's about the way in which modern Christians have corrupted the message of Christ.

Exactly. The modern Christian dogma that Christ can be your personal cosmic gofer, who will make you wealthy, and that Christians owe absolutely nothing to the poor is exactly that - Pissing on Christ.
 
I just do not understand this crap.

Honestly, only comes from people who have a beef with Muslims.

Certainly J-mac and you do.

How the hell is it an apology, for the government to say "Hey We don't endorse a Islam being mocked in this manner" because the United States has a great deal more to gain by saying such a thing than they have to gain from ignorant islamophobes who associate the few violent muslims with the rest of them.

That's then taken by far right wingers as "Apologizing to terrorists" when he's turning them into chicken Tika using drones every other week.

I don't even know what universe you people live in... honestly.

This isn't about apologies, this is about you being pissed off that there aren't more people sticking it to Islam because you have a problem with it, Obama administration in particular.

Chicken Tika?

That cracked me up.

Now, while I don't necessarily beleive it's wrong for the State Dept to make known that that video doesn't represent the view of the American people, I don't think saying so should have been the lead off response considering that it was clearly just an opportunistic coincidence used to incite violence by Al-Qaeda and was indeed actually a terrorist attack. Not just some pissed off Muslims.
 
There's a world of difference. First of all, the anti-Muslim film is very clearly anti-Muslim. That and it's also a film. Piss Christ, whether you like it or not, is art. It may not be your kind of art, but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

Oh please...Who defines what is art?
 
Oh please...Who defines what is art?

I'd say that the person who released it gets to define whether it should be considered as art or not.
 
I'd say that the person who released it gets to define whether it should be considered as art or not.

Same as the movie, then, right?
 
Where is the outrage from the Obama Administration? Nowhere.


Only when radical Islam is offended comes the flood of apologies. That's Obama's way, but everybody knows that by now, so it's no surprise really.

Can you point me to a video where obama is apologizing to muslims?
 
Oh please...Who defines what is art?

People who know about it beyond laymen terms. Going to a museum does not qualify as "knowing about art".
 
I'd say that the person who released it gets to define whether it should be considered as art or not.

Hahahahahaha! Great...I have some water colors from 1st grade that I think is art, so let's get a frame, and put it up at Sotheby's...:roll: Art is subjective...And all the pretentious, pompous asses in the world can within their little groups of echo snobbery can say all they want, doesn't make it anymore than opinion.

As the saying goes down here in the south brother....'Just because the Cat has kittens in the oven, don't make 'em biscuts....'
 
Hahahahahaha! Great...I have some water colors from 1st grade that I think is art, so let's get a frame, and put it up at Sotheby's...:roll: Art is subjective...And all the pretentious, pompous asses in the world can within their little groups of echo snobbery can say all they want, doesn't make it anymore than opinion.

As the saying goes down here in the south brother....'Just because the Cat has kittens in the oven, don't make 'em biscuts....'

Not all art is GOOD art. So, sadly, you're 1st water colors might not make the grade for Sotheby's.
 
Art is anything that a person uses as self expression. That's what art is all about. We have lots of different ways of expressing lots of different aspects of ourselves, and therefor, lot's of different art forms, from the more physical like dance and martial arts, to the metaphysical, like music and color composition...and everything else in between.

Words are an art form, because we use them to express ourselves...in the most literal of ways. Images, video, all of these things, inevitably, fall into this category. Does that mean that everything we do is art? No. When I worked on the night shift and packed out shelves, we called it an art form, because of the skill and concentration involved with getting row after row of Cherrio boxes to stand up just right, flat, neat, even, perfect. But in no way was I expressing myself. No Louvre worthy piece, that, then. Art then, requires two things...feeling, intent, something to be expressed...and an audience. The "Pissed Christ" has both, as does "The Innocence of Muslims". Now, one belongs in a gallery, because, frankly, the work is beautiful, well executed, etc...while the other belongs in the trash bin that is the internet, final resting place of all expression, because it was NOT well executed, poorly choreogrphed, filmed, and lit. Good and art and bad art is up to the VIEWER to decide...but the VIEWER can never determine if it IS art or not. They can have an opinion, as do we all...but you know something about opinions? They're just like assholes.

Question for some of you. What if someone re-shot the "Innocence of Muslims", but with good lenses, beautiful lighting, a better written script (with Morgan Freeman narrating), etc etc?

Would it then be art, despite NO change in content?
 
Back
Top Bottom