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Thread: Amish Beard-cutting Attacks Verdicts: Guilty

  1. #31
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    Re: Amish Beard-cutting Attacks Verdicts: Guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    for what-they got the warrant based on claims of child abuse-an area in which the ATF had no jurisdiction.
    Read the case again. They got the warrant on suspicion that Koresh was illegally modifying guns.

    Why did the murder charges get flushed? because the Davidians were justified in killing or shooting at the ATF

    btw the fury foreman said if they knew some statist judge was going to give those people way out of line far above the guideline sentences for some guns that MAY have existed the jury would have acquitted the survivors on ALL COUNTS
    Wait a minute, is your argument that law enforcement agencies can't obtain search warrants based on suspicion?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Amish Beard-cutting Attacks Verdicts: Guilty

    just goes to show that unconstitutional gun laws need to be erased.

    the ATF created a spectacle to justify their paramilitary budget spending rather than picking Koresh up in town like they had before (and he had always cooperated)

    if the ATF actions were proper the murder charges would have stuck

  3. #33
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    Re: Amish Beard-cutting Attacks Verdicts: Guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    just goes to show that unconstitutional gun laws need to be erased.

    the ATF created a spectacle to justify their paramilitary budget spending rather than picking Koresh up in town like they had before (and he had always cooperated)

    if the ATF actions were proper the murder charges would have stuck
    Oh stop derailing the argument. End of the story is simple: ATF agents had a lawful warrant, Koresh reacted as is expected from a retard with **** to hide. Normal people don't hole themselves up with a bunch of guns, kids and women. I mean sure, the ATF made some mistakes and could have been far more political about the situation but to pretend that Koresh was some law abiding citizen who made some tough decisions is ridiculous. I'd be more inclined to support his actions if he didn't already have a relevant history of crazy **** behind him.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #34
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    Re: Amish Beard-cutting Attacks Verdicts: Guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Oh stop derailing the argument. End of the story is simple: ATF agents had a lawful warrant, Koresh reacted as is expected from a retard with **** to hide. Normal people don't hole themselves up with a bunch of guns, kids and women. I mean sure, the ATF made some mistakes and could have been far more political about the situation but to pretend that Koresh was some law abiding citizen who made some tough decisions is ridiculous. I'd be more inclined to support his actions if he didn't already have a relevant history of crazy **** behind him.
    If you were right, the slayings of the storm troopers would have resulted in murder convictions.

    you probably think Sammy weaver deserved to be shot in the back or that Kevin Harris was wrong to shoot the coward that shot the boy in the back.

    its funny how the left loves it when the government murders white gun owning whack jobs but they get so upset when say OWS assholes get maced for blocking a public right of way or when that Dem Mayor in Philly bombed the MOVE anarchists

  5. #35
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    Re: Amish Beard-cutting Attacks Verdicts: Guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you were right, the slayings of the storm troopers would have resulted in murder convictions.
    Yes - tell us again why the mistrial was declared? You should know.

    you probably think Sammy weaver deserved to be shot in the back or that Kevin Harris was wrong to shoot the coward that shot the boy in the back.

    its funny how the left loves it when the government murders white gun owning whack jobs but they get so upset when say OWS assholes get maced for blocking a public right of way or when that Dem Mayor in Philly bombed the MOVE anarchists
    Wha? The left? I didn't know I was speaking for 'the left'. I'm speaking for myself. You should try that sometime. It works a lot better than non sequiturs.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Amish Beard-cutting Attacks Verdicts: Guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Sure and David Koresh was a crazy **** as demonstrated by his actions. You can blame the ATF all you want but in the end blame lies on the citizen who decided it was reasonable to lock himself, kids and women and a ****load of guns when they had federal agents at their door.
    Agents weren't at the door, agents were shooting at them.

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    Re: Amish Beard-cutting Attacks Verdicts: Guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Well, not to derail the excellent discussion of the Branch Davidians above, in a nutshell, this is why the charges and convictions are appealing to me when normally, I do not approve of hate crime laws:

    This was an instance where a religious leader had gained control of a group and used his power to punish former members for leaving. It seems fairly clear he had this little community in a box, so that people who wanted to be Amish and also wanted some relief from him were forced to move away. The beard and hair cuttings took place after the other Amish bishops chastised Mullet for his demands that his former members be shunned -- which is doubtless a terrible penalty for any Amish person.

    The level of intimidation was clearly very high, and far more than even a cross burning on your front yard. Yet without this law, there'd have been very little the police could do, and most likely, not enough to deter Mullet.

    I don't expect a suitable set of facts for such a charge will arise very often, but I am not upset that if it does, there's a legal basis for an adequate police response.
    They had plenty of regular charges including illegal imprisonment, kidnapping and assault, with asking the jury to rule they hated their form of religion.

  8. #38
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    Re: Amish Beard-cutting Attacks Verdicts: Guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Agents weren't at the door, agents were shooting at them.
    Ah, another thread where joko104 makes stuff up. Well, that's the end of sensible discussion everyone. Thanks for coming.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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