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Thread: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggling?

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nonsense, there are plenty of ways to come up with the money rather than your 'either/or' fallacy.
    Such as...? Because clearly that's not how we're paying for the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan right now. Off balance sheet accounting measures (borrowed money OR fiat money) is how we funded both wars. Are you saying you're completely in favor of that OR would you rather have seen other ways to fund these war efforts? If so, how would you have done it differently that what both GWB or Mitt Romney propose?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 09-23-12 at 05:27 PM.

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Whenever I read comments like the above, I have to wonder if the poster has really paid attention to the movements of Congress instead of just listening to political talking points or rhetoric.

    The President's record is actually better than those on the Right would give him credit. It's not stellar only because of actions from Congress. Let me provide an example...

    After the debt celing deal fell apart, the President presented congressional leaders with the American Jobs Act (AJA). In doing so, President Obama gave Congress a choice to either: a) pass his bill in its entirety, or 2) pass it in parts. Congress choose to pass his jobs bill in parts which in some ways was unfortunate. For example, the bill provided for a way to halt the sequestations on defense spending, but Republicans balked! Another example is how long it took Congress to pass the Temporary Surface Transportation Extension Act of 2012 signed into law on June 30, 2012. Not only were many of the provisions taken directly from the AJA, but appropriations were only extended through July 6, 2012. Clearly, such short-term measures will not spur economic growth long-term, but that's the kind of ineptness of Congress we're left with, and yet pundits will frame the lackluster jobs and economics numbers as the President's failed policies or "a failure of leadership" instead of placing blame squarely on themselves. How about a failure of Congress to put the needs of the country first ahead of their own political aspirations? That's the true failure coming out of Washington, DC these days.

    Process, ladies and gentlemen...learn it, understand it.
    The reason...and the failure...of Obama's administration is his insistence on raising taxes and increasing spending. These are unacceptable to the Republicans and the result is the gridlock you speak of. That's Obama's fault...plain and simple...because the Democrats in Congress didn't have the courage to buck their President. Personally, I see this all as a good thing because the result...if the Republicans didn't stand fast...would have been worse than what we have now. Worse, that is, if you think 16 trillion in debt is a bit high already. It could have been worse.

    No. The failure out of Washington...and that which isn't spoken of by the Democrats...is the failure of Obama to effectively lead and the Congressional Democrats to work independently of their failed President.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  3. #73
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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I don't like him, but right now I think Santorum was better choice. He can at least relate to the common man, and he is not potrayed as a rich lying asshole.
    Yeah but Santorum would have easily given the election to Obama.

    Social Conservatism has never been for small government. Santorum would bleed independents faster than Palin did for McCain's ticket.

    Romney is a rich flip flopping, no ideology asshole. Ryan is a rich compulsive lying asshole.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Such as...? Because clearly that's not how we're paying for the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan right now. Off balance sheet accounting measures (borrowed money OR fiat money) is how we funded both wars. Are you saying you're completely in favor of that OR would you rather have seen other ways to fund these war efforts? If so, how would you have done it differently that what both GWB or Mitt Romney propose?
    How many troops do we have in Iraq today? Hint....ZERO! But as far as my larger point, Cut waste, get people working again to increase the revenue from tax roles, and at the same time lessening the dependency roles on programs like Food Stamps that have exploded under this President. That's one.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    The reason...and the failure...of Obama's administration is his insistence on raising taxes and increasing spending.
    And what taxes have actually increased in the past 3.5 years? And we do need to increase taxes to pay down the deficit and debt.

    These are unacceptable to the Republicans and the result is the gridlock you speak of. That's Obama's fault...plain and simple...because the Democrats in Congress didn't have the courage to buck their President. Personally, I see this all as a good thing because the result...if the Republicans didn't stand fast...would have been worse than what we have now. Worse, that is, if you think 16 trillion in debt is a bit high already. It could have been worse.
    Cute. Apparently it's the Democrats' fault because they didn't bow down to the GOP, but it's not the GOP's fault for saying absolutely no to virtually everything and absolutely refusing to compromise. The Democrats were willing and offered cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. The GOP refused to budge. Cutting entitlements for the Democrats is pretty amazing as it rarely happens. But the GOP still said no.

    Tell me this, what makes you think the economy will be better with less aggregate demand. You focus purely on the debt number but seem to completely not understand how increasing the debt increases aggregate demand in the economy via spending. I've asked this question before, and essentially every partisan hack like you runs away: Why would the economy be better off with significantly less aggregate demand?

    FYI: The Republicans admitted on day one they were going to do everything to block recovery. Amusingly, one of their own real jobs bill is going to lead to massive wholesale fraud upon the American people. The JOBs bill will clean out the savings of millions of people.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Don't blame Romney's struggles on the media. The thread calls for a real, objective answer to the question of why Mitt Romney hasn't gained traction in this presidential campaign. Provide one other than the "blame the media" response which is just as ridiculous is many respects as "blame Bush".

    Point to concrete reasons for his strugges and if you're honest about them you'll see what so many others see...
    ~snipped the blather~
    LOL!!!

    Typical of you...you key in on one point in my post..."the media"...miss the meat of my post..."the Democrats have been very effective with their campaign of distraction"...and then ask me for reasons for his struggles.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    And what taxes have actually increased in the past 3.5 years? And we do need to increase taxes to pay down the deficit and debt.



    Cute. Apparently it's the Democrats' fault because they didn't bow down to the GOP, but it's not the GOP's fault for saying absolutely no to virtually everything and absolutely refusing to compromise. The Democrats were willing and offered cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. The GOP refused to budge. Cutting entitlements for the Democrats is pretty amazing as it rarely happens. But the GOP still said no.

    Tell me this, what makes you think the economy will be better with less aggregate demand. You focus purely on the debt number but seem to completely not understand how increasing the debt increases aggregate demand in the economy via spending. I've asked this question before, and essentially every partisan hack like you runs away: Why would the economy be better off with significantly less aggregate demand?

    FYI: The Republicans admitted on day one they were going to do everything to block recovery. Amusingly, one of their own real jobs bill is going to lead to massive wholesale fraud upon the American people. The JOBs bill will clean out the savings of millions of people.
    To the current crop of Democrats, compromise means do it our way or we will blame it all on you.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    LOL!!!

    Typical of you...you key in on one point in my post..."the media"...miss the meat of my post..."the Democrats have been very effective with their campaign of distraction"...and then ask me for reasons for his struggles.
    Seems to me that the Media has totally failed to discuss how the GOP from day one was committed to blocking everything.

    Apparently it's all Obama's fault but a Republican House committed to stopping everything isn't at fault at all. If you are want get rid of Obama for the economy, that's fine. But you're a massive raging hypocrite if you don't want to boot the party that made it a committed goal to sabotage the economy.

    To the current crop of Democrats Republicans, compromise means do it our way or we will blame it all on you.
    Fixed.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    And what taxes have actually increased in the past 3.5 years? And we do need to increase taxes to pay down the deficit and debt.



    Cute. Apparently it's the Democrats' fault because they didn't bow down to the GOP, but it's not the GOP's fault for saying absolutely no to virtually everything and absolutely refusing to compromise. The Democrats were willing and offered cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. The GOP refused to budge. Cutting entitlements for the Democrats is pretty amazing as it rarely happens. But the GOP still said no.

    Tell me this, what makes you think the economy will be better with less aggregate demand. You focus purely on the debt number but seem to completely not understand how increasing the debt increases aggregate demand in the economy via spending. I've asked this question before, and essentially every partisan hack like you runs away: Why would the economy be better off with significantly less aggregate demand?

    FYI: The Republicans admitted on day one they were going to do everything to block recovery. Amusingly, one of their own real jobs bill is going to lead to massive wholesale fraud upon the American people. The JOBs bill will clean out the savings of millions of people.
    Now you are confusing me...

    On the one hand you say we need to raise taxes to pay down the deficit and debt. On the other hand, you say the debt is a good thing because the economy will do better with it.

    I have a better idea: stop spending...the deficit magically reduces...the growth in debt reduces. Now, I don't know about you, but I'd say THAT'S a good thing. And, guess what...with less deficit spending and reduced debt, there's no need for the government to suck money out of the economy so they can put it back into the economy. It'll already be there.

    Of course...the only problem is that the liberals won't be able to spend the people's money. Well, I say to them: Too bad.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Actually, I'll double-fix for the both of you.

    "To the politicians of a party, compromise means do it our way or we will blame it all on you."

    It's about power and perception. Use the pulpit to smash down the other guy and make him look unreasonable.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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