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Thread: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggling?

  1. #201
    Student John.NoseTip's Avatar
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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Let's do one more. See if you like this: Democracy is good for the environment because those directly affected by social and ecologic degradation have a voice.
    Yes. But democracy is very, very difficult. Specifically,
    * you have to have a well informed public and the apparatus to keep them well informed.
    * you have to have fair representation. Look at how the legislative districts are drawn. Many people don't even know who there reps are much less what they stand for.
    * all voices aren't equal. Money has a great impact on the voices heard. The think tanks fund much of what gets said on the news and talk radio.

    In a nutshell democracy requires good citizenship. How do you require good citizenship and still maintain individual freedoms? The best I can come up with is something like a tax credit for taking civics classes or reading. I know it sounds silly but if the voters were more informed things would work much better.

  2. #202
    global liberation

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Informed consumer means a basic public education must be available, whatever our philo on economics and government responsibility. Fair representation requires minority rights and a transparent legislative and judicial branch (and exc, as possible with details). Money is speech; my dollar lobbies the (global) market and is part of my free speech. What I gather is rightfully mine to disperse or save, minus basic secondary education (and maybe a lil help for college), police and other services that are 'naturally' monopoly-prone.

    I don't get why you dont see, let alone understand, the criteria you put forth nor the existing institutions in effort to insure those for all people. Like we're not doin' it. Hello, free person.

    I say Fair Tax. I like (retail only) consumption tax better than income, and the tax up to 'poverty' (% of 12k/person) prebate.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 09-26-12 at 11:22 PM.

  3. #203
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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by John.NoseTip View Post
    Yes. But democracy is very, very difficult. Specifically,
    * you have to have a well informed public and the apparatus to keep them well informed.
    * you have to have fair representation. Look at how the legislative districts are drawn. Many people don't even know who there reps are much less what they stand for.
    * all voices aren't equal. Money has a great impact on the voices heard. The think tanks fund much of what gets said on the news and talk radio.

    In a nutshell democracy requires good citizenship. How do you require good citizenship and still maintain individual freedoms? The best I can come up with is something like a tax credit for taking civics classes or reading. I know it sounds silly but if the voters were more informed things would work much better.
    With the American media and public schools clearly attempting to keep the American people uninformed there is little doubt that these civic classes would not do the same thing. The American people are woefully uninformed and that could lead to their downfall.

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggl

    Quote Originally Posted by hikari View Post
    Do you honestly think that people haven't? I mean are you naive enough to think that given the same set of information as you rational people would only come to the same choice as you?

    And for the record looking at business people in politics I would say a background in one doesn't mean they are necessarily good at the other for every Mark Warner there is a George Bush.
    So the well informed voter is still going on about George Bush.

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I think the explanation might lie in the reason they think they're worse off. If they even though Obama has been President for 4 years, its possible they think its not his fault. Maybe its because they think they're worse off because of corporate policies practiced by organizations that Bain Capital exemplifies, at least in imagery.

    I also think for a lot of people, its not exclusively about the economy. Making women out to be sluts and porno queens because they want BC coverage isn't going to get a lot of female votes. I know it wasn't Romney who promoted this concept but it was Romney's "team" that did and denounced rigorously by Obama. Making Hispanics out to be presumed criminals in Arizona who should be racially profiled based on their ethnic features with only the authority to arrest and then release and no authority to try, deport or grant residency under federal immigration law, thus legal harassment under state law with other states wanting to copy it isn't going to get you many Latino votes. It might be a false perception or have anything to do with Mitt Romney himself but perception is reality and the AZ immigration law is seen as "this is how republicans treat Hispanics". I could go on but there are quite a few groups the GOP and those perceived as speaking for the GOP who have been alienated over the past 4 years on things having nothing to do with the economy.
    All of what you say here is perception, (i,e ignorance) and promoted by the Democrats and their media.

    If perception and ignorance is going to rule the day then the American people will get what they deserve.

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggli

    Middle-class income and wealth fell in last 10 years, survey shows

    http://www.trbimg.com/img-503541e9/t...120822-001/600

    By Walter Hamilton

    August 22, 2012, 1:47 p.m.
    The vast majority of middle-class Americans say their financial well-being has been crimped over the last 10 years by sagging home values and dreary job prospects, according to a new survey.

    About 85% of middle-class people say it’s tougher now than a decade ago to maintain their living standards, according to the Pew Research Center report.

    Middle-class income and wealth fell in last 10 years, survey shows - latimes.com

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggl

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So the well informed voter is still going on about George Bush.
    I also mentioned Mark Warner, your point? Both have business backgrounds and one is unpopular and gave us huge debts, the other is incredibly popular and gave Virginia a huge budget surplus. My point was having a business background doesn't mean you will or will not manage the economy well, yet you choose to throw your hands up at the fact I mentioned Bush? How childish is that, completely ignoring a point because of a name.

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggl

    Quote Originally Posted by hikari View Post
    I also mentioned Mark Warner, your point? Both have business backgrounds and one is unpopular and gave us huge debts, the other is incredibly popular and gave Virginia a huge budget surplus. My point was having a business background doesn't mean you will or will not manage the economy well, yet you choose to throw your hands up at the fact I mentioned Bush? How childish is that, completely ignoring a point because of a name.
    You are right, and I was rude. But it would seem the odds are better if it is a successful businessperson with governing experience who is elected to higher office.

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    Sage

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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggl

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So the well informed voter is still going on about George Bush.
    You think we could forget him? You wish.

  10. #210
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Voters say they’re worse off after four years of Obama, so why is Romney struggl

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You think we could forget him? You wish.
    yeah the obama worshippers need someone else to blame for Obama's massive failures

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