Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 78910 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 98

Thread: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

  1. #81
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:49 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,569

    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Why do you keep cutting my screen name out of your quotes? You don't do that with anyone else. Do you not want me to get notification that you quoted me?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    No I'm pointing out a major logical inconsistency that is showing how irrational your views are.

    If you believe the buck stops at Obama with anything that happens under his watch than you should blame Bush for 9/11.
    When did I say anything about Bush and 9/11?

    When, also, did I say that "the buck stops with Obama?" I said what happens in his Administration is a reflection on his Administration.

    I don't even know how that's debatable.

    And in fact, I even said, explicitly, with these exact words: "No one said Obama was personally involved in it."

    Why do you have to continually twist what I say?


    Of course I take the other view...that Obama and Bush are both dealing with a massive government structure in which there's no way on earth they can know everything that's going on at everytime. In fact they depend on that structure to inform them of situations.
    "Other view"? When did I say anything which contradicts this?

    Sure...to some degree. To conservatives it's a major scandal. To most Americans it seems to be an unfortunate situation that should be prevented from ever happening again.
    Again, speaking to points you wish I made rather than what I actually said.


    Of course not...I blame the field office and individuals that made the mistake of using the same tactics they used under Wide Receiver. How on earth can you say the two aren't connected?
    I grow tired of your need to accuse me of saying things I didn't say.

    It doesn't matter if they were "connected." Fast and Furious was initiated in 2009 and didn't have to be. Nor did it have to be conducted in the way it was. This was a choice made by the Holder Justice Dept and no one else.


    Wide Receiver was inititiated to stop gun trafficking. It was initiated in the same Arizona ATF field office. When Department of Justice officials stated they needed to do something about gun traffiking the field office decides to re-implement the same policy they had used previously to stop gun trafficking.
    Even if they were identical -- which they weren't -- it wouldn't matter. If they were both wrong, Wide Receiver does not absolve Fast and Furious. I don't know why that is so difficult to grasp.


    No...I don't think Wide Receiver should receive the same attention. In fact I think it's come to light how dumb both operations were and they should never be reimplemented. Holder has insured that takes place.

    It doesn't absolve the lunacy of Fast and Furious...which isn't my point of mentioning operation WR. My point in mentioning Wide Receiver from the get go is to point out it's not some new fangled policy created by Holder. It's a field office reimplementing an previous policy they had used to go after gun traffickers. It's bad policy period. No matter who orders it. In the new form...under the new name Fast and Furious it resulted in the death of an American. The bad policy was brought to light and the individuals that were shown to be involved are getting fired or resigning. To me that's what you would expect. It's conservatives that think it's some cudgel with which to beat up on the Obama administration..
    No, actually, want you want to do is try to take some of the heat off the Obama Administration by impugning the Bush Administration. I already responded to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Of course, all it really does is the usual thing -- defending the Obama Administration by saying the Worst Administration Ever (TM) did the same thing, once again making the Obama Administration ALSO the Worst Administration Ever (TM). I really don't know where you think it gets you.
    It continues to baffle me how "Bush did it too!" is seen as a viable excuse.

    Or, in the alternative, you're vindicating the Bush Administration and saying they were doing the right things all along after all. You pick, I guess.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  2. #82
    Pontificator
    iliveonramen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    9,199

    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    No, actually, want you want to do is try to take some of the heat off the Obama Administration by impugning the Bush Administration. I already responded to this:
    There is no heat on the administration! It's not even news to people outside of the right. The issue is resolved.

    It continues to baffle me how "Bush did it too!" is seen as a viable excuse.
    Is that what I'm saying?

    It doesn't absolve the lunacy of Fast and Furious
    My point in mentioning Wide Receiver from the get go is to point out it's not some new fangled policy created by Holder. It's a field office reimplementing an previous policy
    It's bad policy period.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  3. #83
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:49 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,569

    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    There is no heat on the administration!
    That's baffling. Of course there is.

    You may not agree with it, but that doesn't mean there isn't.

    It's not even news to people outside of the right.
    Oddly, plenty of news organizations disagree.

    The issue is resolved.
    Well, not really, not in the sense you seem to be saying it is. There was indeed something to see, even if it's left at the results of this internal investigation (and it won't be).


    Is that what I'm saying?
    Well, yes. I get that you want to backpedal on it, but yes.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #84
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    please detail me the differences between Fast and Furious and Wide Receiver
    rfid tags to track the weapons, far fewer guns in the first place, mexican authorities involved, WR was shut down in 07

    sources: cbs (primarily), latimes, ibd, others

    Daily Kos: Operation Wide Receiver v Fast & Furious

    indeed, mexican officials (including calderon) have publicly objected to their being frozen out

    Mexican attorney general: "Obama more involved in Fast & Furious than admitted!" - National Law Enforcement | Examiner.com

    how can some people talk so much and know so little?

    oh well
    Last edited by The Prof; 09-20-12 at 01:48 PM.

  5. #85
    Pontificator
    iliveonramen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    9,199

    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Well, yes. I get that you want to backpedal on it, but yes.
    I'm back peddling by reposting my previous posts?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  6. #86
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:49 AM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,569

    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    {intentionally cutting your screen name tag out of this}I'm back peddling by reposting my previous posts?
    No, you're backpedaling, AND reposting previous posts.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #87
    Sage
    Hicup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Last Seen
    12-07-17 @ 03:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    7,846

    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by jerry7 View Post
    It's news that Holder's own investigator cleared him? LOL!!!
    I know right? AdamT is such a ... Well you know... LOL


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  8. #88
    Professor
    Hairytic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Mississippi
    Last Seen
    10-01-13 @ 04:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    1,592

    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    They failed to stop the sale of firearms to straw buyers. Straw purchase is illegal in every state, and as a result of the ATF's inaction and stupidity, hundreds of people are dead. That's not the simple little oversight you're trying to brush this off as. It's criminal negligence resulting in a high body count, which is what the ATF is best at.
    Straw purchases are legal as long as those goods or services are not used in a crime. The ATF agents couldn't stop the purchases of those guns, so they watched where the guns went as best they could to try and stop them from getting into the hands of criminals. When you have lose gun regulations, you can't just go in and arrest people for purchasing a lot of weapons even if they are straw buyers. The Justice Department would have to have evidence them guns purchased were being handled in an illegal way before anyone could be arrested. The actual walking of the guns was not the focus of the congressional hearing to begin with. Darrell Issa was just creating a scandal that wasn't there to begin with.

    Straw purchase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A straw purchase is any purchase wherein an agent acquires a good or service for someone who is unable to purchase the good or service himself. Straw purchases are legal except in cases where the ultimate receiver of goods or services uses those goods or services in the commission of a crime.

  9. #89
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,589

    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Well, your opinion is not endorsed by anything other than yourself. That's what makes it worthless. And it has nothing to do with who you are, it the fact that you're just one guy one the internet demanding proof that there isn't a conspiracy. When it's backed up by any facts or anything other than your own dogmatic beliefs, call me maybe?

    What conspiracy? I'm saying this administration is corrupt. It squanders money collected from tax payers to prop up public unions and did so with the Failed Stimulus. It contrived a method to drain another 20 billion dollars out of the Treasury to the UAW in the Failed GM Bailout.

    The DOJ sued Boeing for hiring non union employees and dropped the suit when Boeing bribed the union.

    The Administration shut down Gibson Guitar for daring to expand a non union shop.

    Obama's administration restrained drilling in the Gulf after a court ruled that drilling could resume. If he puts himself outside of the law, that is corrupt.

    Obama used Executive Privilege to protect holder either making the act of us EP illegal or declaring that Obama is complicit in the malfeasance in this.

    The Administration refuses to enforce laws passed by Congress.

    The Administration enforces laws not passed by Congress.

    The Administration leaks information for political gain endangering operatives in the field and their families.

    Obama and his henchmen actively attack those who he perceives to be a political enemy.

    If you have been unaware of these things, i am glad that you are finally recovered from your coma. You should investigate your hero. He has feet of clay.

    Strassel: Obama's Enemies List—Part II - WSJ.com
    Jon Stewart Trashes Obama’s Executive Privilege Assertion On Fast And Furious | Mediaite
    SPECIAL OPS group attacks Obama over bin Laden bragging, leaks | Reuters
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  10. #90
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,589

    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    The Inspector General reviewed the documents and found nothing wrong with Holder's handling of the situation, other than he lack of knowledge about what was going on in Arizona. Failure to turn over documents that are top secret to an open congressoinal hearing is not a separation of powers violation. Holder was not allowed, legally, to turn those documents over. Issa knew this and just wanted to create a scandal where there was none.

    So holder is the Sergeant Schultz of the American Government? Nixon was never actually connected to the crimes, only the cover up.

    Holder is just another corrupt mechanic working for a corrupt President.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 78910 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •