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Thread: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    The Department of Justice provided over 7,600 page of documents as well as making numerous officials available for questioning
    DOJ Fast-and-Furious Report: WH Aide Declined Interview With IG; 'White House Did Not Produce Any Internal White House Communications' | CNSNews.com

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    No. It's a sign that the Dept of Justice is the President's responsibility. If you're right, you don't have to twist.
    Or maybe the answer they gave Congress was correct....that the documents requested were currently relevant to ongoing criminal investigations.
    Where do you get that? Operation Fast and Furious, which is what's in question here, was an original operation created by Holder's ATF in 2009
    The tactics date back to 2006...different name same program same branch running it.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Or maybe the answer they gave Congress was correct....that the documents requested were currently relevant to ongoing criminal investigations
    from the ig report:

    "the records the white house produced did not contain any communications between newell and oreilly that referred to operation fast and furious by name, and the communications that referred to the 'large OCDETF case'--which was operation fast and furious--did not include any information about the case strategy or the tactics agents were using to conduct the investigation"

    link above

    if there's no coverup, why look so much like you're covering up?

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Or maybe the answer they gave Congress was correct....that the documents requested were currently relevant to ongoing criminal investigations.
    You're attempting to deflect again, even after your error was pointed out.

    It's not about what was protected. It's about the Dept of Justice being the responsibility of the President.

    The tactics date back to 2006...different name same program same branch running it.
    Dude. Nothing under investigation happened under the previous Administration. Bush is gone. Let it go.

    Really, you'd think Bush never left office, and there's been no new Administration for the last (nearly) four years. Or that none of them had any choice but to do exactly what Bush was doing, even though they'll tell you they were elected specifically to reverse all of it.
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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    You're attempting to deflect again, even after your error was pointed out.

    It's not about what was protected. It's about the Dept of Justice being the responsibility of the President
    I'm not deflecting...I'm operating under the assumption that we have a large bureacracy that for the most part is autonomous. That President Obama...or President Bush...or President Clinton...going back to all the modern Presidents are unaware of the majority of things that happen under their watch.

    When the situation was reported and people became aware of what was taking place was changes made? Yes. Was the operation ended? Yes.

    Dude. Nothing under investigation happened under the previous Administration. Bush is gone. Let it go.
    As I stated above....no President rolls in and stops government long enough to go through every field office and operation in every sector of government and condones ore repeals policies. It would be chaos. For the most part...government goes on no matter who is the President and does their best to fullfill their mission. This policy origionated under the Bush administration and wasn't ended by the Obama administration until the death of the agent.

    Really, you'd think Bush never left office, and there's been no new Administration for the last (nearly) four years. Or that none of them had any choice but to do exactly what Bush was doing, even though they'll tell you they were elected specifically to reverse all of it.
    The incident took place his first year in office! The fact he's now been in nearly 4 years is irrelevant. This idea that everything changes under a new President is bunk. They are kind of busy!
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    What documents did Obama hold back from the congressional hearing? Holder handed over everything and then some. Issa wanted something that didn't exist. Now that Holder has been cleared, we know Issa was just playing politics by trying to drum up a scandal where there was none.
    He handed over about 7k of over 112k requested. That is a long way from everything.

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Why would Obama know?
    Might have been in one of those security briefings he didn't attend.

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I'm not deflecting...I'm operating under the assumption that we have a large bureacracy that for the most part is autonomous. That President Obama...or President Bush...or President Clinton...going back to all the modern Presidents are unaware of the majority of things that happen under their watch.

    When the situation was reported and people became aware of what was taking place was changes made? Yes. Was the operation ended? Yes.
    You keep saying all of this stuff as though it has relevance to the point I made. This is answering the point you wish I made, rather than answering the point I actually did.

    And it's the third time you've done it.


    As I stated above....no President rolls in and stops government long enough to go through every field office and operation in every sector of government and condones ore repeals policies. It would be chaos. For the most part...government goes on no matter who is the President and does their best to fullfill their mission. This policy origionated under the Bush administration and wasn't ended by the Obama administration until the death of the agent.
    No, it didn't. Fast and Furious was initiated in 2009. That you're having a problem owning up to that speaks volumes.


    The incident took place his first year in office! The fact he's now been in nearly 4 years is irrelevant. This idea that everything changes under a new President is bunk. They are kind of busy!
    Thank you for at least sort of acknowledging that it didn't happen under Bush.

    The rest of this is laughable, and aimed solely at giving the Obama Administration a pass for those things which you find inconvenient. Under this reasoning, no one's responsible for anything.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    You keep saying all of this stuff as though it has relevance to the point I made. This is answering the point you wish I made, rather than answering the point I actually did.
    So what's your point. All I'm getting is that it was an ATF office that was running the program. The ATF office is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Justice. The head of the Department of Justice is appointed by the President. Therefore everything done in any ATF office is a result of the President. If I'm wrong clarify. If that's the point you were making I don't see how my point was irrelevant.

    No, it didn't. Fast and Furious was initiated in 2009. That you're having a problem owning up to that speaks volumes.
    Once again...please detail me the differences between Fast and Furious and Wide Receiver. The only difference I can see is one was done under Bush...the other by Obama. Same office, same tactic.

    Thank you for at least sort of acknowledging that it didn't happen under Bush.

    The rest of this is laughable, and aimed solely at giving the Obama Administration a pass for those things which you find inconvenient. Under this reasoning, no one's responsible for anything.
    Conservative reasoning...something that happens in a branch office of the ATF in Arizona...Obama's fault. A major terrorists attack on US soil? Nobody's fault...just systematic problems with the bureacracy. It's a load of horse**** honestly. I'm just glad the elctorate isn't as blind.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You keep saying all of this stuff as though it has relevance to the point I made. This is answering the point you wish I made, rather than answering the point I actually did.

    And it's the third time you've done it.




    No, it didn't. Fast and Furious was initiated in 2009. That you're having a problem owning up to that speaks volumes.




    Thank you for at least sort of acknowledging that it didn't happen under Bush.

    The rest of this is laughable, and aimed solely at giving the Obama Administration a pass for those things which you find inconvenient. Under this reasoning, no one's responsible for anything.
    If the system has become so large that it is autonomous and information really is not getting to those who should know about it it needs to be changed and this program highlights that. It is illegal for a person to use a "spring trap" for home defense, a device or system that can trigger without oversight such as a shotgun pointed at a door that will fire if the door is open. Th reasoning is rather obvious. This program resulted in many deaths. Not fixing a system like this is the same as that shotgun. It is indiscriminate killing and should be dealt with strongly whether it is an individual or a government program.

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