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Thread: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    What was that? I couldn't hear you over the gnashing of teeth coming from the conspiracy brigade!
    An internal investigation confirms that Holder doesn't have a clue what's going on right under his nose? There's something to bragg about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well if the Fast and Furious outrage was about justice sure...everybody agrees with the outcome and glad the issue was brought up.

    This tying it to Obama is the ginned up portion.
    Yeah! Obama is just the head honcho. How could he have any responsibility?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    That video showed that Eric Holder was accused of these things, however, Holder was not given a chance to respond. Now that the independent investigation clears Holder of all wrong doing, it is clear that these aligations are wrong as well. I can see many reasons why the documents do not need to be released to the public.
    What independent investigation? There wasn't an independent investigation. There was an internal investigation within the DOJ. This means that Holder's buddies and employees have examined the documents and drew their own conclusions. Ofc they found their boss and friend innocent of any wrongdoing. And also, the video goes far enough to let Holder finish what he had to say which was something like this: senator, you are wrong on most of the things you said and I will not bother to respond any further. That was it. All of it. Some defense. He should have taken the 5th.

    Look. It's just disgraceful. Congress asks about details regarding F&F to Holder... Holder says he doesn't know anything about it. 8 months later... due to public pressure because of the border patrol agent was killed... he send another text that says that he does know something about it and that they do have F&F. Then he keeps going over for how long he knew about it when Holder himself is interviewed. He says first that he knew about it a few weeks before the official statement which they acknowledged it... then a few months... then he shifts the blame saying that only his assistant knew about.it... or some other bull****. It's a disgrace. A public disgrace and then... to top it all off, when Holder refused to surrender all documentation requested by the Congress, Obama said: **** you all, I'm keeping this bitch... and the circuss continued for 2 years.
    It's a ****fest.

    Now, there are many reasons why the government would not release documentation. Mainly... because they would show how incompetent they were in handling the whole thing. Or it would incriminate some people. Bush did the same in 2007. He refused to release a lot of documents with his gun walking program that also failed... but at least that one was done in collaboration with the Mexican government. This one was done behind the Mexican government. Anyway... the democrats gave a festival of incrimination on the bush administration back then and Obama himself was a clear advocate for full transparency because it would imply some shady deals otherwise. I agree, Bush should have released the documents because they aren't his private property. The US taxpayers paid for all of it. The operation, the planning, the people and they have paid the price of its failure... just like in this case. It's the same. The difference is that Obama vowed full transparency when he ran for elections... because the Bush administration was so secretive. This is just another case when he broke his word in this regard.

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Much as there were those who insisted there was no scandal at all.
    There are two differen aspects to Fast and Furious.

    The first being a dead border agent and guns being funneled to Mexican drug cartels.

    I don't know of many people that believed that wasnt' a scandal.

    The other aspect was trying to tie it to the Obama administration via Eric Holder. That's the aspect that people thought was a political witch hunt....and as Conservatives even in this thread are saying..."believe me not your lying eyes". People on the right want a scandal so bad to tie to the administration that facts don't matter.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah! Obama is just the head honcho. How could he have any responsibility?
    Why would Obama know?
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    There are two differen aspects to Fast and Furious.

    The first being a dead border agent and guns being funneled to Mexican drug cartels.

    I don't know of many people that believed that wasnt' a scandal.
    There were those who denied it happened.


    The other aspect was trying to tie it to the Obama administration via Eric Holder.
    It's certainly tied to Holder -- in terms of mismanagement and incompetence -- as even the report says.

    If it's in the Justice Department under Obama, it's already tied to Obama. How could it not be? Even if he DIDN'T refer to to departments and cabinet secretaries as "my" all the time, the whole shebang IS under him. Recall that he invoked Executive Privilege to protect Holder. How is this so if what goes on in Justice is not tied to the President?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    They "walked" them, meaning they allowed illegal sale to dealers they knew would supply the cartels. They may as well have sold the guns themselves.
    Actually, those sales were not illegal under Arizona law. The ATF could only watch the purhcases to see where they lead. This is why it only happened in Arizona. They have very laxed gun laws and even if the ATF has arrested someone, the prosicutors would have had a hard time making a charge stick. The ATF simply tried to watch to see if these guns crossed the boarder, which would be illegal. However, once the guns were sold, it was hard to keep track of them.

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    It's certainly tied to Holder -- in terms of mismanagement and incompetence -- as even the report says.

    If it's in the Justice Department under Obama, it's already tied to Obama. How could it not be? Even if he DIDN'T refer to to departments and cabinet secretaries as "my" all the time, the whole shebang IS under him. Recall that he invoked Executive Privilege to protect Holder. How is this so if what goes on in Justice is not tied to the President?
    There's a drastic difference from something happening in a field office in Arizona and it being managed by Eric Holder. The right was salivating at the idea of Eric Holder managing it. The fact is...it's exactly what most media sources reported in the first place...it's a program that was started before Obama took office and continued after Obama was swore in. End of story and not nearly as sensational as you would think by all the graphics and screaming people on Fox News.

    So now invoking Executive Privilage is some sign of guilt? The Department of Justice provided over 7,600 page of documents as well as making numerous officials available for questioning. Eric Holder went to Congress multiple times to testify in front of the committee. It was a committe on the search for a scandal not justice or the truth.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    Actually, those sales were not illegal under Arizona law. The ATF could only watch the purhcases to see where they lead. This is why it only happened in Arizona. They have very laxed gun laws and even if the ATF has arrested someone, the prosicutors would have had a hard time making a charge stick. The ATF simply tried to watch to see if these guns crossed the boarder, which would be illegal. However, once the guns were sold, it was hard to keep track of them.
    They failed to stop the sale of firearms to straw buyers. Straw purchase is illegal in every state, and as a result of the ATF's inaction and stupidity, hundreds of people are dead. That's not the simple little oversight you're trying to brush this off as. It's criminal negligence resulting in a high body count, which is what the ATF is best at.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: ‘Fast & Furious' operation: Justice probe clears Eric Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    The fact is...it's exactly what most media sources reported in the first place...it's a program that was started before Obama took office and continued after Obama was swore in.
    Where do you get that? Operation Fast and Furious, which is what's in question here, was an original operation created by Holder's ATF in 2009.


    So now invoking Executive Privilage is some sign of guilt?
    No. It's a sign that the Dept of Justice is the President's responsibility. If you're right, you don't have to twist.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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