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More details emerge on U.S. ambassador's last moments

MadLib said:
He was the person who received the warning?
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Well...let's put it this way...since warnings and decisions were made up to five days before the event, if he didn't hear about them...then he has a real problem, don't you think?

But tell me...is there ANYTHING you'll hold him responsible for? Anything at all? I hope so, because he sure won't hold himself responsible for anything.
 
Mycroft said:
Well...let's put it this way...since warnings and decisions were made up to five days before the event, if he didn't hear about them...then he has a real problem, don't you think?

But tell me...is there ANYTHING you'll hold him responsible for? Anything at all? I hope so, because he sure won't hold himself responsible for anything.
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So all warnings for a consulate go directly to the President, but the Ambassador was never informed?
 
MadLib said:
So all warnings for a consulate go directly to the President, but the Ambassador was never informed?
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What makes you think the Ambassador wasn't informed?
 
Mycroft said:
What makes you think the Ambassador wasn't informed?
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Earlier in this thread you argued that the Ambassador wasn't told, only his staff. So his staff was informed, the Prez was informed, but the Ambassador wasn't?
 
And seriously, what was Obama supposed to do? Break international law by deploying troops to a consulate? That was Libya's job!

Does anyone have any evidence that Obama himself was informed of this and did nothing because he is so evil?
 
MadLib said:
Earlier in this thread you argued that the Ambassador wasn't told, only his staff. So his staff was informed, the Prez was informed, but the Ambassador wasn't?
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No. I never said any such thing.
 
MadLib said:
And seriously, what was Obama supposed to do? Break international law by deploying troops to a consulate? That was Libya's job!

Does anyone have any evidence that Obama himself was informed of this and did nothing because he is so evil?
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How about instructing his Ambassador to hunker down till the coast is clear instead of galavanting all over the country and ending up in a virtually indefensible consulate.
 
Mycroft said:
Actually, he's directly responsible for deciding that the warnings were vague and unrelated. He is directly responsible for the decision that these warnings were "unactionable" and for the decision to take no action.

You must understand...even if you don't want to accept it...that the buck stops with him.
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Wow.

If this irks you, you must have been extremely pissed when the Bush Administration completely ignored the "Bin Laden determined to strike in the United States" memo.
 
Middleground said:
Wow.

If this irks you, you must have been extremely pissed when the Bush Administration completely ignored the "Bin Laden determined to strike in the United States" memo.
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Yes...I was. But he made up for it by slapping bin Laden and the Taliban up side the head afterwards. Though I was even more pissed at Clinton for not taking out bin Laden when HE had the chance...how many times???

But, you know, one thing about Bush was...he never tried to find a patsy or something else to blame it on. Nor did he lie about it all.
 
What the heck are you people talking about? This appears to have little to do with what happened in the days leading up to the murders. One group that is suspected of doing this is lead by a guy we had at gitmo, he lead rebels in overthrowing Gaddafi and now he is suspected in these murders. Here's an idea quit siding with these "extremist" because you think you have some greater goal like overthrowing Gaddafi. How many times does this have to happen before the public calls bull**** on this tactic.

What do you think is happening in Syria right now? Amercian CIA is at a minimum coordinating weapons and extremist ,including Al Qeada, to mount military attacks against Assad. Here's a prediction if America is successful in overthrowing another regime there will be blowback. The blowback won't have jack **** to do with who is president because both of these bastards are warmongers just like the last bastard. Yet people are agruing about donkeys and elephants. WTF! Come November if you cast your vote for a donkey or elephant you are voting for more Americans to die in muslim countries and muslims to be killed by Americans. All the while the counrty is going broke, standard of living is declining and the FED is buying at least 40 billion a month worth s***** assets from the banks.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Ummm...very relevant. Do you think a lot of warnings occur, or not?
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Look, intel specific or not it was naive to keep the Ambassador in an unstable tribal war zone with a hired local militia to stand guard.

No other country in the World is putting up with the heated hatred that the US is or has been since 9/11.
The most dangerous region in the world to be a US citizen is the Middle East. In a volatile country that has just had a revolution and the vacuum of power has created a devolved to local tribal militia's type of governance what were you expecting to happen? The area has violent hardline anti-western groups. Did no one hear of the recent smashing up of WW2 British war graves? The police stated they could do nothing against the powerful heavily armed group involved. Security there is fragile at best.

Remember the cartoon from that small nordic country? The reaction was obvious.

The Ambassador should have never been put in such a sitting duck position. He should have been in a protectable, near the coast, non-urban fort protected by US marines until the heat died down. If not just out of the country all together.

It was neglectful, naive, and crazy to leave him in an uncontrolled city with no military backup which has hardline anti-American militas as well as its moderate elements.

If your being attacked in over 20 countries. Your flag being burned repeatedly in everyone. logically you must accept - these folks don't like us we need to take extra security measures.

An internal review of the policy to leave thats man's life in the hands of an untested militia needs to be undertaken. Its near criminal.
 
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Mycroft said:
Obama is using every trick he can come up with...and rightly so...to save his re-election bid. I don't think it's going to work.
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Unfortunately, with the help of the media, it's working like a charm for him. He can appease in public and get away with it. Not looking good.
 
I hate to take a stab at the Resident of the United States, but this is all on him. He should know what's going on in the War room at ALL TIMES. he was just relaxing enjoying his campaign ride with Romney. not focused on the dangers of our installations around the world.

At it odd that this guy was suppose to ease tensions in the Middle East and things have only gotten worse since he took office?

Don't you people find that ODD!!!??
 
Napoleon said:
Apples and oranges. I don't recall anyone saying that Bush should have grounded all airplanes in the country prior to 9/11 but he was provided with specific and actionable intel and we had an FBI informant living with two of the hijackers in California. That is a far cry from a random local security officer telling an ambassador that he had "security concerns" without any mention of a threat to the consulate or any evidence that those concerns were relayed to Washington.
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Sorry, but the PDB you referenced had no actionable intelligence. It was a rehash of things that had been reviewed before - nothing about airborne attacks. Not one thing in the brief that could have been acted on specifically.

Now - if you have more information than what has been publicly released before, please enlighten us all. I can change my mind with new facts.

What actionable intelligence are you privy to??

I am genuinely interested - maybe I have missed something.

TIA

Now about the Mid East turmoil - I think there was more than a 'random local security officer' who was concerned about the upcoming anniversary of 9/11.

In fact, one should not have needed any kind of 'heads up' - when anniversaries of important events in the muslim world approach, the State Dept should have reinforced security measures.

And - if we really had no intelligence info of an impending attack, that just means our intelligence was poor. Perhaps if we captured some of the Al Qaeda leaders and questioned them - (dare I say 'waterboarded' them) perhaps we could have gotten a heads up.

But - this administration would rather kill them from a drone - no doubt so they won't have to face the sticky situation of what to do with a captured enemy.

I am absolutely NOT opposed to our drone activities - I just wish we had some ground effort to effect some captures in addition to the fire from the sky. And I wish we had the guts to do interrogate the people we capture.
 
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Rokkitsci said:
Sorry, but the PDB you referenced had no actionable intelligence. It was a rehash of things that had been reviewed before - nothing about airborne attacks. Not one thing in the brief that could have been acted on specifically.

Now - if you have more information than what has been publicly released before, please enlighten us all. I can change my mind with new facts.

What actionable intelligence are you privy to??

I am genuinely interested - maybe I have missed something.

TIA
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I'm not going to derail this thread with a discussion of pre-9/11 intelligence. If you're interested in discussing this then create a new thread and I can enlighten you.
 
Middleground said:
If this irks you, you must have been extremely pissed when the Bush Administration completely ignored the "Bin Laden determined to strike in the United States" memo.
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Are you sure you want to post this? If so - it shows a complete disassociation with facts or a predilection to just be a partisan liar.

You should be embarrassed to bring up such thoroughly debunked talking points from Monday Morning QBs.
 
Napoleon said:
I'm not going to derail this thread with a discussion of pre-9/11 intelligence. If you're interested in discussing this then create a new thread and I can enlighten you.
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Nah - I'm not that interested - unless you assert that you have some information that has not been thoroughly discussed previously.

I am comfortable with the accepted conclusion that there was no actionable intelligence in that PDB. Don't want to re-fight old arguments.
 
I'm comfortable with that conclusion, too. Ditto to the Libyan embassy.

Ya see, political ideology isn't guiding me here.
 
Rokkitsci said:
Are you sure you want to post this? If so - it shows a complete disassociation with facts or a predilection to just be a partisan liar.

You should be embarrassed to bring up such thoroughly debunked talking points from Monday Morning QBs.
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Meanwhile, you're here in this thread, enjoying your first partisan chub of the day.

And frankly, based-on your posting history, I'm not surprised you still want to back up the choices the Bush administration has made. Especially in spite of the facts about that memo that have recently come to light.
 
Mycroft said:
Yes...I was. But he made up for it by slapping bin Laden and the Taliban up side the head afterwards. Though I was even more pissed at Clinton for not taking out bin Laden when HE had the chance...how many times???

But, you know, one thing about Bush was...he never tried to find a patsy or something else to blame it on. Nor did he lie about it all.
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Sorry, Mycroft, this is about the craziest thing I have read in a while. Are you basically saying it was okay that the Bush administration missed the boat pre 9/11 because they got revenge for the thousands that got killed and injured afterwards? WOW. :shock:
 
Napoleon said:
It is very sad to politicize the murder of an ambassador. To say that a vague warning about security concerns somehow constitutes "knowing" that a mob would attack the consulate and launch a rocket propelled grenade into the compound is ludicrous. If fingers have to be pointed then start pointing them in the right direction; the Libyan security forces for failing in their obligation under international law to protect foreign embassies and consulates.
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So you trust the Libyans with American's lives? Good thing you're not the national security adviser. Oh wait, she must have trusted them too.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060922863 said:
So you trust the Libyans with American's lives? Good thing you're not the national security adviser. Oh wait, she must have trusted them too.
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The United States trusts that every host country will adhere to their security obligations under international law. So, instead of being so partisan, take a moment to consider the fact that we trust every host nation to protect our diplomats and have for many decades. Fortunately we don't put the responsibility of securing our embassies in the hands of war mongers who thumb their nose at international law.
 
Middleground said:
Sorry, Mycroft, this is about the craziest thing I have read in a while. Are you basically saying it was okay that the Bush administration missed the boat pre 9/11 because they got revenge for the thousands that got killed and injured afterwards? WOW. :shock:
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shrug...

YOU'RE the one who brought up Bush in a thread about Obama. You don't like what you hear? Start a thread about Bush, then.
 
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