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Thread: Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

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    Re: Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    That is not a fair comparison. The workers always have the option of walking away. The government doesn't have that option. They are compelled to stay at the table.
    No, there are no chains on any of the people in any of the chairs during a negotiation. The question here is simply over negotiation and whether that should occur on anything resembling a level playing field. Some seem to view "workers" as mere and properly voiceless resources to be exploited rather than as stakeholders to be bargained with. Some seem as well not to recognize the substantial benefits in terms of certainty that amicable labor relations bring. We all have to hope that the people in those sorts of groups never come to be in charge of anything.

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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well I'm a federal employee, and it is definitely against the law for me to unionize.
    So without applying thought or reflection of any sort, you decided to assume that your personal circumstances were identical to those of untold numbers of other federal employees who are not in fact similarly situated? That was obviously a mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    But the point remains that federal workers have to have the governments' permission to unionize - they cannot do so against their employers will, and the federal government does indeed deny many of it's workers the ability to do so.
    Anyone can form a union. Even you and your peers. The question will arise as to the whether your union can gain exclusive bargaining rights with your employer with respect to any actual issues. For instance, since many federal salaries are set by statute, it would be senseless even to seek to bargain wages with an executive branch official. He has no control over the matter either.

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    Re: Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    A lawyer would have known that it may or may not be.
    still stuck on what my profession is. private entities are not the same as those acting under the color of state law

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    Re: Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    No, there are no chains on any of the people in any of the chairs during a negotiation. The question here is simply over negotiation and whether that should occur on anything resembling a level playing field. Some seem to view "workers" as mere and properly voiceless resources to be exploited rather than as stakeholders to be bargained with. Some seem as well not to recognize the substantial benefits in terms of certainty that amicable labor relations bring. We all have to hope that the people in those sorts of groups never come to be in charge of anything.
    not literal chains, but there are , in fact, legal chains that bind the employer to that table... they are required to negotiate in good faith... not asked , required by law

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    Re: Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    oh wow. that's funny, the CBO says it's running a surplus and will do so now indefinitely. they must be all kinds of confused. you should write them a letter!
    Did you mean deficit? Were you sure to select the CBO data that reflect Trust Fund revenue other than payroll tax receipts? Do you meanwhile think it is possible for any entity sitting on $2.8 trillion to be bankrupt? Do you understand that the Trust Fund balances were designed to return to zero, and that if or when they do, the system will not be remotely bankrupt?

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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    That's a serious restriction of rights as it is.
    To a few, it is. How many partisan elections have you been a candidate in by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Really? What basic right is being upheld when unions can deduct dues from paychecks? When they can collect dues from workers who are not union members? When they can work in a closed shop?
    You aren't addressing a basic rights issue at all. You are whining over your unreasoned personal disapproval of certain among the judicially-approved ways in which basic rights have been implemented. In particular you are arguing the case for freeloaders -- turnstile-jumpers, tollbooth-runners, tax-evaders and others who seek out ways of shirking their legitimate obligations to pay. Put up a list of those who are obligated to pay for benefits they don't have access to. Until then, those who enjoy union-negotiated improvements in pay, benefits, and working conditions and still try to refuse to pay dues are nothing but worthless scumbag freeloaders. The law makes provision for those.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    And what if union membership is not a benefit? What if instead it is more like a blood sucking parasite attached to the ordinary worker? What if the "benefits" accrue mainly to senior members and union leadership? Does not the ordinary worker deserve the right to shake off the parasite?
    You mean like when experts of long-standing receive higher wages and a freer ear than talentless whiners and rookies? Here's a hint: It's like that everywhere.

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    Re: Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    not literal chains, but there are , in fact, legal chains that bind the employer to that table... they are required to negotiate in good faith... not asked , required by law
    Your understandings appear to be incomplete. Good faith bargaining laws apply to all parties involved and establish mutual obligations and responsibilities. They do not compel any party to make any concession or to agree to any proposal. They require of both or all sides a fair, proper, and honest commitment to the process. That's the extent of it.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 09-16-12 at 12:30 PM.

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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    That's a serious restriction of rights as it is.



    Really? What basic right is being upheld when unions can deduct dues from paychecks? When they can collect dues from workers who are not union members? When they can work in a closed shop?
    Cardinal Fang fully addressed those two points, so i will move on to the next



    And what if union membership is not a benefit? What if instead it is more like a blood sucking parasite attached to the ordinary worker? What if the "benefits" accrue mainly to senior members and union leadership? Does not the ordinary worker deserve the right to shake off the parasite?
    and you have identified what the law anticipated. that union represented employees, dues paying union members, need an opportunity to oust those union leaders who are not advancing the will of the represented union members. and this happens by democratic election. those dues paying members - by virtue of their dues payment - are eligible to vote for their leaders, as provided by the union's constitution. just as we have the opportunity to turn out politicians who are not acting in our interests, so too, do the union members have the opportunity to elect new leadership more inclined to the needs of the members. conducting these democratic elections is required by law and they are monitored by the department of labor
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    This was settled I dont know how many times with the Wis. supreme court & then again with the voters. This Liberal piece of crap Judge needs to go, period.

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    Re: Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    why? for making the correct judicial call
    Elections have consequences - or at least that is what Obama said when he ignores any suggestions from conservatives.

    Elections trump judges. everytime. Except in liberal utopia where anything goes if you can locate a corrupt thug in black robes.

    That ruling won't last a minute when a real court takes it up.

    Shame on corrupt justices.
    The greatest fault of capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth. The greatest benefit of socialism is the equal distribution of misery. = Churchill

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