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Thread: Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

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    Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    So it's fine for a few million taxpayers to be represented by a handful of carefully chosen negotiators, but it ISN'T fine for a few thousand workers to be represented in the same way? Because there is a mystical "just something" about representing workers that makes their representatives "the masters"? I'll file that away under Visions of Sugar Plums.
    That is not a fair comparison. The workers always have the option of walking away. The government doesn't have that option. They are compelled to stay at the table.
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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    fascinating. why has no federal judge issued a similar ruling against the federal government, which currently does not allow it's employees to unionize?
    Sheesh!!! There are about a hundred unions that either directly or through a local have exclusive recognition with departments and agencies of the federal government. Maybe fact-check something every now and then.

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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    some are, and some are barred from doing so. The DOJ, the TSA, and the military, for example.
    Are correctional officers at federal prisons represented by a union, to your knowledge? And to your knowledge, some 45,000 TSA employees are NOT now represented by AFGE following a contest with NTEU over the summer for rights of representation, but in fact, they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Can I sue the federal government for damages as I have not been allowed to unionize?
    If you have standing and can find a case and a court of jurisdiction, you can certainly file.

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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Are correctional officers at federal prisons represented by a union, to your knowledge? And to your knowledge, some 45,000 TSA employees are NOT now represented by AFGE following a contest with NTEU over the summer for rights of representation, but in fact, they are.


    If you have standing and can find a case and a court of jurisdiction, you can certainly file.
    well I'm a federal employee, and it is definitely against the law for me to unionize.


    which is a good thing, mind you.



    But the point remains that federal workers have to have the governments' permission to unionize - they cannot do so against their employers will, and the federal government does indeed deny many of it's workers the ability to do so.

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    Re: Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    nah. the math is on the side of the GOP here, same with entitlement reform.
    Math??? The people all agog over entitlement reform tend to be those who can't make change for a dollar. Social Security has a surplus of $2.8 trillion and there are people who actually think it is bankrupt. These folks are examples of financial and mathematical illiterates.

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    Re: Wis. judge strikes down law crippling public unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Math??? The people all agog over entitlement reform tend to be those who can't make change for a dollar. Social Security has a surplus of $2.8 trillion and there are people who actually think it is bankrupt.
    oh wow. that's funny, the CBO says it's running a surplus and will do so now indefinitely. they must be all kinds of confused. you should write them a letter!

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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well I'm a federal employee, and it is definitely against the law for me to unionize.

    a military recruit is hardly in the same status as a civilian employee.
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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    a military recruit is hardly in the same status as a civilian employee.
    you are correct, but I am no recruit. and there are plenty of other federal employees that are not allowed to unionize.

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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    You should take a look at the Hatch Act. Federal workers by law are not allowed to do a lot of things in the political arena.
    Well, they can't run as candidates in partisan elections, and they can't make political use of their official status or capacity in a range of ways. Anything else?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Constitutional rights are one thing. The special privileges granted to unions by statute are another.
    No, they are often the very same thing with the latter providing the detailed expression of the former and more general principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    The teacher's unions made it pretty clear that they can't survive without mandatory dues. The idea that a union has the constitutional right to collect dues from workers who are not their members is about as silly as it gets.
    The free-rider problem is an economic issue, not one found in labor relations alone. In general, if you benefit, you have an obligation to pay. Silly whining doesn't remove that obligation. Laws providing fines and jail terms for turnstile-jumpers do not compromise Freedom & Liberty®, but rather contribute to the notion of ordered liberty basic to the operation of any society.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 09-16-12 at 10:08 AM.

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    Re: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Law Limiting Union Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Well, they can't run as candidates in partisan elections, and they can't make political use of their official status or capacity in a range of ways. Anything else?
    That's a serious restriction of rights as it is.

    No, they are often the very same thing with the latter providing the detailed expression of the former and more general principles.
    Really? What basic right is being upheld when unions can deduct dues from paychecks? When they can collect dues from workers who are not union members? When they can work in a closed shop?

    The free-rider problem is an economic issue, not one found in labor relations alone. In general, if you benefit, you have an obligation to pay. Silly whining doesn't remove that obligation. Laws providing fines and jail terms for turnstile-jumpers do not compromise Freedom & Liberty®, but rather contribute to the notion of ordered liberty basic to the operation of any society.
    And what if union membership is not a benefit? What if instead it is more like a blood sucking parasite attached to the ordinary worker? What if the "benefits" accrue mainly to senior members and union leadership? Does not the ordinary worker deserve the right to shake off the parasite?

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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