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"Innocence of Muslims" the film that caused the protests

I agree, the less extreme Egyptians and Libyans should stand up against the islamofascists. At very least against such acts of violence.

That's why I think we should target our criticism more specifically and avoid to needlessly offend those Muslims we need on our side. Hate speech that equally offends violent nutjobs and decent non-violent Muslims alike is hurting our cause to single out the extremists and to dry out sympathy on the side of the less extremes.

As for stupidity alone, I'm not sure we're really less stupid in the West than in Muslim countries -- but when it comes to stupid violence, I agree, they certainly hold a top position in these regards.

They should take the first step and prove that they're actually on our side. Without that, it's obvious they're not on our side, to begin with.
 
70% of Egypt just Voted in the Islamo-fascists; Muslim Brotherhood and Salafis.
The always tricky... 'moderate' Islam.

To be fair, only 15% went to the totally nutty Salafists, while the Muslim Brotherhood got 50%+.

And based on all I read, the Muslim Brotherhood is certainly not liberal by Western standards, but at least rational enough to talk and negotiate with them, and establish a kind of cooperation. Muslim Brotherhood politicians often claimed Erdogan's islamists in Turkey are their role model. If that's true, that wouldn't be ideal of course, but not that bad either.
 
To be fair, only 15% went to the totally nutty Salafists, while the Muslim Brotherhood got 50%+.

And based on all I read, the Muslim Brotherhood is certainly not liberal by Western standards, but at least rational enough to talk and negotiate with them, and establish a kind of cooperation. Muslim Brotherhood politicians often claimed Erdogan's islamists in Turkey are their role model. If that's true, that wouldn't be ideal of course, but not that bad either.

Good post.. You got it.
 
Whenever somebody suggests that to me I consider it a comliment.

A fellow would have to be awfully well-hung to accomplish such a feat, wouldn't he?

I'm not so sure. It's not a very far distance. I think if one just kinda mashed it up there with their finger, it might work. Why don't you try it. :D
 
Saw several of the clips from the film on youtube and sadly confess that i thought it was semi-entertaining over the top parody. And would kinda like to see the whole movie.

Poked around the web and am not seeing where the full movie is available (if anywhere). Anybody here have a clue where the complete movie can be seen....??
 
i dont recall this much "ado" when 'the passion of the christ' came out..

the protestors they show seem to be mostly the young and angry.. obviously there isnt much else going on in their lives but 'guns and religion'..
 
70% of Egypt just Voted in the Islamo-fascists; Muslim Brotherhood and Salafis.
The always tricky... 'moderate' Islam.

You make a good point.
 
Therein lies the problem. You don't know a regular Muslim from a terrorist Muslim, and neither does anyone else.

Instead we get the usual hackneyed response of 'not all Muslims are terrorists'. We know that. We really, really do.

If all muslims were terrorists it would make the job of defending ourselves a great deal easier, wouldn't it? Of course we must also keep in mind that they all belong to a similar fraternity and few quit in disgust at the actions of their theological brethren.

When irate Muslims exclaim, "Death To America", do they mean just certain states in America? Do you think that's a subject of debate among Muslims? I doubt it. When they say "Death to America" it probably refers to western civilization, with no exceptions.

Perhaps we can negotiate with them. I say give them Germany, Vermont and Prince Edward Island. Maybe then they'll shut up and go away.
As I said before, one usually can base their conclusions off of words and actions rather than assumptions.

It's a statement based off of common sense, and personal experience to boot. There are large sects of non violent muslims alive and well, unfortunately their influence and example is dampened quite easily by the scores of extremists among them.

Actually, no.

That's a rather ridiciculous request to be quite frank. Akin to demanding catholics renounce their faith in accordance with scandals that have little to do with their own personal beliefs and character traits. I do believe that the "secular" sects of the Muslim community should voice themselves with far more authority on the issue though.

The fault in your argument is that your attributing such a proclamation to a wide range of individuals who took no part in such demonstrations, as pointed out previously.

Make it New Jersey and you've got a deal.
 
We should be apologizing for that film for its heinous production values alone.

I've seen better pieces by high school kids.

"Sorry. Some of us are stupid assholes, ut we have free speech in America so we have to put up with it." Is a perfectly American statement.

We just need to let them know that we let South Park handle our light work.

I'm sure they're working on an episode as we speak.

"Some Christians made a movie about Muslims! Dumb! Dumb! Dumb! Dumb! Dumb!"

Some Muslims made a movie about Muslims too. Great stuff! I gave it five crescents.

SHAHEED E KUFA (FULL ISLAMIC MOVIE) URDU VERSION PART 22/22 - YouTube
 
The Egyptians and the Libyans should stand up to the Islamofacists and it would go a long way to finding common ground.

I mean, all the stupidity is going on in their world, not ours.

But the Egyptians just voted in the Muslim Brotherhood and the Safaris, thereby establishing a one vote, one man, one time situation. It seems they want to go full Islam. That appears to be the trend in fact.
 
To be fair, only 15% went to the totally nutty Salafists, while the Muslim Brotherhood got 50%+.

And based on all I read, the Muslim Brotherhood is certainly not liberal by Western standards, but at least rational enough to talk and negotiate with them, and establish a kind of cooperation. Muslim Brotherhood politicians often claimed Erdogan's islamists in Turkey are their role model. If that's true, that wouldn't be ideal of course, but not that bad either.

If the Muslim Brotherhood were white Germans who exposed the same sorts of virulently misgynist, homophobic, theocratic opinions, you would no doubt consider them extreme right.

and you would be correct.

It is only because they are Arab that anybody could possibly call them moderate.
 
If the Muslim Brotherhood were white Germans who exposed the same sorts of virulently misgynist, homophobic, theocratic opinions, you would no doubt consider them extreme right.

and you would be correct.

It is only because they are Arab that anybody could possibly call them moderate.

You're probably right, and I would never want to live in Egypt.

But they are as they are, and we cannot chose another Egypt we like more, because there is only one. So as long as their government is sufficiently "moderate" (in comparison to the Salafists) to leave us alone, to respect our and Israel's treaties with them and not to fund terrorists, I'd say "go for it".

Of course it would be nice if people in Egypt were very enlightened and shared all our Western values. But I don't think that's realistic for the time being, and we can't change the people there. So a bird in the hand...
 
As I said before, one usually can base their conclusions off of words and actions rather than assumptions.

I quite agree. However I see a lot more Muslims shouting Death To America rather than Long Live America. Perhaps they are the silent majority but it would be nice if they spoke up occasionally.

It's a statement based off of common sense, and personal experience to boot. There are large sects of non violent muslims alive and well, unfortunately their influence and example is dampened quite easily by the scores of extremists among them.

Yes, yes, i get it. Not all Muslims are terrorist. Perhaps we can now move on.

That's a rather ridiciculous request to be quite frank. Akin to demanding catholics renounce their faith in accordance with scandals that have little to do with their own personal beliefs and character traits. I do believe that the "secular" sects of the Muslim community should voice themselves with far more authority on the issue though.

As a matter of fact many Catholics did renounce their faith and the Christian religion, in Europe especially, has almost died out completely. And being replaced by you know what.
The fault in your argument is that your attributing such a proclamation to a wide range of individuals who took no part in such demonstrations, as pointed out previously.

Yes, quite. Not all Muslims are terrorists. It seems we just went through that.

Make it New Jersey and you've got a deal.

What??? Chris Christie for Peter Shumlin??

I don't think so!! Christie would not go gentle into that good Islamic night.
 
You're probably right, and I would never want to live in Egypt.

But they are as they are, and we cannot chose another Egypt we like more, because there is only one. So as long as their government is sufficiently "moderate" (in comparison to the Salafists) to leave us alone, to respect our and Israel's treaties with them and not to fund terrorists, I'd say "go for it".

Of course it would be nice if people in Egypt were very enlightened and shared all our Western values. But I don't think that's realistic for the time being, and we can't change the people there. So a bird in the hand...

I would be content with them just possessing human values.
 
Why do you never have specifics, you leave me to guess what you mean.

I was pretty clear.

So you're saying you define the enemy as radical Islam and radical Islam as anyone who doesn't speak out against attacks against the United States?

Not just the US friend, but any that refuse to convert to Islam or pay their dhimmi tax.

That's a lot of people man

Absolutely it is.

how are we going to identify who's speaking out and who isn't?

I would say that those that condemn the current wave of terrorism, and caliphate against Israel, and the west would be speaking out....

Should we stop and question everyone and if we don't like their answers then contain or kill them or what?

Why must progressives always take it to ridiculous extreme?
 
I was pretty clear.

Not just the US friend, but any that refuse to convert to Islam or pay their dhimmi tax.

Absolutely it is.

I would say that those that condemn the current wave of terrorism, and caliphate against Israel, and the west would be speaking out....

Why must progressives always take it to ridiculous extreme?

Ok three questions about feasible of your solution:
1) How do we tell who's condemning and not condemning?
2) What do we do with those who aren't condemning?
3) How does this play into our national values like free speech if we consider those people who had nothing to do with any attacks, but aren't speaking out against them, as the enemy?
 
Why must progressives always take it to ridiculous extreme?

So we have had conservatives on this board say we should invade Islamic countries or even nuke them and you say progressives always take it to ridiculous extremes?
 
I was driving home from work this morning listening to NPR and hear a story about this film and the story behind it, and what I heard was quite shocking and made me sick and angry.

Where to start? Well firstly let me explain a few things, I'm going to trash this film and its producers and vile humans bent on creating violence and intolerance in the world for selfish and petty ends, and who probably take a sick pleasure in angering and degrading others. However, what I'm not going to is deny their freedom of speech which despite all the sickening aspects of their film they of course always have that right to say whatever they wish. Also, none of this should be considered a justification on the part of those who used this film as a reason for violence as much as it understandably angers them and even though many reports state its been used and blown out of proportion by extremists/fundamentalists in the Arab world as an excuse for their own petty political goals, like by claiming it is a big budget Hollywood movie to be shown across theaters in the USA. For example several reports state the riots in Cairo have been motivated by Salafists, a group devoted to an extreme fundamental vision of Islam, who see the west as their enemy and would love an opportunity like to cause violence and I'd bet my bank account to get someone killed by an American defending the embassy to create a martyr and another propaganda story to increase support for their movement.

Apparently according to several experts who have seen this trailer, it the film has been deliberately made to be as insulting and degrading to Muslims as possible. Picturing Mohammed and the story of the Quran as a combination of the worst horrible inaccurate stories about the prophet throughout history, picturing him as a homosexual, child rapist, animal rapist, baptizer of animals, liar, thief, cheater, as a man who prances around with the most stereotypical "gay voice" you've ever heard, etc, etc.

Anti-Islam Film Crafted To Provoke, Experts Say : NPR

Going further its becoming clearer that some of actors and crew hired to produce this film had no idea what they were actually getting into, being told they were filming a movie called "Desert Warriors" about the adventures of a tribe of nomads in Egypt roughly 2,000 years ago.





What We Know About 'Sam Bacile,' The Man Behind The Muhammad Movie : The Two-Way : NPR

California Man Confirms Role In Anti-Islam Film : NPR

The producer, who hasn't even been identified with 100% certainty, is an unknown perhaps a elderly Jewish man in California or a Coptic Christian Egyptian. But the man can't even come forward and claim his own message, preferring to lob his obscenities from the safety of anonymity where no one can challenge him directly, a complete coward if you ask me. And it appears the film's producers are not without a criminal past, one being convicted of bank fraud in 2010 and the other belonging to a Christian hate group.





So my point is simply this: Its a sickening and horrible act to create speech with the deliberate attempt to provoke someone, or in this case a whole religion, to anger and violence. And while these men certainly have the freedom to produce this film, although not to manipulate their actors and crew, they should be seen for exactly who they are, as being trying to cause violence from the shadows, people who are forced to manipulate others because their message would never stand up to any but the most equally ridiculous critics.

Likewise, the Muslims who were allowed themselves to be provoked, and the groups who used this as propaganda to manipulate others into violence have no one to blame but themselves for their own violence and they must be held accountable for their actions. Nothing justifies their actions.

I challenge everyone to stop defending these people, quickly acknowledge their right to free speech and then do nothing but trash the hate spewing, instigators of violence and cowardly worms they really are. Men who thought their petty little games were worth the violence they surely knew may come from their actions, which resulted in the death of four Americans. If it were not for men like these, provoking others to violence for no reason other than some hate filled beliefs and sick pleasure in it, this would have never have happened, those Americans would be alive and the fundamentalists and extremists who are our enemy would not have a powerful propaganda tool to use to inflict damage and death upon America.

I wanted to throw in the latest: it is said that the movie is not the catylist for the embassy attacks, but that it was thrown into the mix.
 
So we have had conservatives on this board say we should invade Islamic countries or even nuke them and you say progressives always take it to ridiculous extremes?

Sure, just read some of the strawman bs, and feckless, cowardly apologist crap that is posted by progressives in here...
 
Apologizing? I'm not an apologist unless you think joining the Army translate to an apology. The point I was trying to make was that just because you can say something because of free speech, doesn't give you the right for that speech to free of criticism. I am just as free to criticize this message as he is to make it.

I blame the film makers for knowingly giving ammunition to our enemies, and I blame our enemies for using it against us. Make sense
?

Makes not sense to me, you give equal blame to the film maker as the terrorist that murdered four of our Ambassadors. You make an apology to the terrorist for our freedom of speech, and because of our freedom of speech they found offense to a film and murdered four of our Ambassadors. No that does not make any sense to me. Here's what I say "**** them", if they don't like it, to damn bad.
 
Sure, just read some of the strawman bs, and feckless, cowardly apologist crap that is posted by progressives in here...

Yeah because calling for nuking entire countries and invading them just because their Islamic is a much more rational solution. :roll:

Shall we also go into the idiotic social conservative views that coincide with 'Babies from rape are a gift from God" as well?

You're comments are just partisan hackery as usual. The fact is BOTH sides have members with extreme views, but you choose to ignore your side's idiotic views.
 
Have not seen the film, so I am reserving judgement.
 
The filmaker is an asshole for making making the film because he damn well knew the reprocussions that would happen from this and didn't care how many lives would be put in danger.

The Muslims that are rioting over this are over-sensative idiots that need to learn that their religion is not free from criticism.

The Muslim(s) that killed the ambassador need to be hunted down and shot.
 
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