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"Innocence of Muslims" the film that caused the protests

Muslims want to destroy us? How ignorant are you?

You mentioned Salafists. Did you not do any research on them?

You don't know that Muslims have been committing acts of terror all over the world?
 
You mentioned Salafists. Did you not do any research on them?

You don't know that Muslims have been committing acts of terror all over the world?

you said:

Now we can can condemn those who are critical of Muslims or Islam and hope that they leave us alone, or we can confront them with our freedoms and tell them straight out that we do not accept their barbaric ways and if they kill 10 of us we will kill 100 of them.. We have a clear choice here because, no matter how we respond, they want to destroy us. Movies don;t matter to them one bit.

You didnt mean Salafists you said Muslims, while its true Salafists are Muslims and are Islamic you said "Muslims or Islam" and then said "they want to destroy us." I'm just assuming you meant all Muslims and all of Islam wants to destroy us.
 
I mostly agree with Wiseone.

And I don't get why people demand politically correct outrage against the islamist extremists. We have been knowing all along that they are criminal violent nutjobs, and that their political culture is severely retarded, nothing new here. Just as their reaction was more than predictable. We all got that long ago already.

Furthermore, I don't see how condemning the movie and its maker(s) somehow equals defending this islamist mob. As Wiseone said, nobody questions that they had and should continue to have the right to make such a movie. Just like other people have the right to create hate speech with the sole purpose of inciting others, such as white suprematists or Holocaust deniers. But that doesn't mean that I have to like it, or that you take the wrong side by criticizing their productions.

It seems there is a political correctness at work, in the minds of some, according to which a lack of immediate and sufficiently passionate condemnation of one side is inappropriate, while condemnation of the other allegedly equals taking sides for the former. This kind of thinking is childish, dangerous and fanatic.
 
You can't define it can you? Personally I have a pretty good idea of how to classify groups to reflect the uniqueness of the situation, I'm just asking for a definition that would help separate the radicals from the rest of them. I don't think you know what you're talking about at all, you talk about "radical Islam" but you have no idea what radical Islam is or who and what groups belong in that category.

So I'll ask again, who are the radical Islamists?


Easy. Those who are not speaking out against the actions of those committing the atrocities....I got news for ya....I hear crickets.
 
I would also like to know! :roll:

Isa Qassim - "Death to America" - YouTube

'Death to America' chant protestors as they storm U.S. Embassy in Yemen smashing windows and pelting offices with stones | Mail Online

"Death to America" chants in Iran - YouTube

“Death to America” Protests Spread to Birthplace of Arab Spring: Gaza | FrontPage Magazine

There are dozens such references on the internet with Islamic leaders preaching hatred against any westerner. It's not clear what movie they watched that incited these hatreds and death wishes but it must have been powerful. Perhaps it was made by an elderly Jewish man.
 
you said:



You didnt mean Salafists you said Muslims, while its true Salafists are Muslims and are Islamic you said "Muslims or Islam" and then said "they want to destroy us." I'm just assuming you meant all Muslims and all of Islam wants to destroy us.

Do you know which Muslims want to destroy you and which Muslims don't?
 
I mostly agree with Wiseone.

And I don't get why people demand politically correct outrage against the islamist extremists. We have been knowing all along that they are criminal violent nutjobs, and that their political culture is severely retarded, nothing new here. Just as their reaction was more than predictable. We all got that long ago already.

Furthermore, I don't see how condemning the movie and its maker(s) somehow equals defending this islamist mob. As Wiseone said, nobody questions that they had and should continue to have the right to make such a movie. Just like other people have the right to create hate speech with the sole purpose of inciting others, such as white suprematists or Holocaust deniers. But that doesn't mean that I have to like it, or that you take the wrong side by criticizing their productions.

It seems there is a political correctness at work, in the minds of some, according to which a lack of immediate and sufficiently passionate condemnation of one side is inappropriate, while condemnation of the other allegedly equals taking sides for the former. This kind of thinking is childish, dangerous and fanatic.


Isn't that what Berliners said when the city split after WWII into East/West? How'd that work out for the East side?
 
Easy. Those who are not speaking out against the actions of those committing the atrocities....I got news for ya....I hear crickets.

Why do you never have specifics, you leave me to guess what you mean. So you're saying you define the enemy as radical Islam and radical Islam as anyone who doesn't speak out against attacks against the United States?

That's a lot of people man, how are we going to identify who's speaking out and who isn't? Should we stop and question everyone and if we don't like their answers then contain or kill them or what?
 
Isn't that what Berliners said when the city split after WWII into East/West? How'd that work out for the East side?

I don't understand. In which way is my statement connected to Berlin after WW2?
 
The meaning of "Death To America" seems quite clear.

What subtext do you read into this?

I don't even know what he's talking about, I'm assuming from his other topics is something along the lines of "All Muslims say Death to America, therefore they are all the enemy"
 
Isa Qassim - "Death to America" - YouTube

'Death to America' chant protestors as they storm U.S. Embassy in Yemen smashing windows and pelting offices with stones | Mail Online

"Death to America" chants in Iran - YouTube

“Death to America” Protests Spread to Birthplace of Arab Spring: Gaza | FrontPage Magazine

There are dozens such references on the internet with Islamic leaders preaching hatred against any westerner. It's not clear what movie they watched that incited these hatreds and death wishes but it must have been powerful. Perhaps it was made by an elderly Jewish man.

Yemen has been a mess since 1960.. Its pretty much the wild wild West outside of Sana. You have warlords and Al Houthi in the north. Royalists, Communists, Al Qaeda in the South who have been joined by Al Shabaab from Somalia. The oil business has been sabotaged.. The factories have closed. People are starving and the place is awash in guns.

That nasty little movie was produced by a Christian.. who blamed it on Israel.
 
Do you know which Muslims want to destroy you and which Muslims don't?

Its a hard question to answer, but its absolutely a question that must be answered. We have to locate the enemy before we engage them otherwise they will never be defeated, and once we've located them it almost always requires a unique solution to deal with them. Sometimes its a simple as kill them, most times its more complex. For example these individuals in Egypt cannot simply be hunted and killed, from I've seen on the news we don't know who exactly organized this attack on our Embassy and if we did we can't simply go into Egypt and hunt them down. It requires a different approach, which is press Egypt into living up to its commitments of providing security around our Embassy. Now I'm not talking about internal embassy security, I'm talking things like sending in the police to contain or break ups protests/riots outside the embassy before they ever get inside it. They should also be pressured to breaking up these violent groups within their own country, they are much more suited to that task being both more familiar with their own country and people than we are AND having the legal authority to do so.
 
Extremists do not speak for the entirety of the Islamic community, as you should well know.

Do you know how to identify an extremist Muslim from a regular Muslim?

If you know the answer it might speed the line-ups at the airport.
 
Do you know how to identify an extremist Muslim from a regular Muslim?

If you know the answer it might speed the line-ups at the airport.
That's a rather difficult task, as evidenced by your constant broadbrushing of the entirety of the Islamic community based on half cocked gut assumptions. I myself usually make judgements based on actions instead. I simply don't feel the overwhelming majority of muslims seek to destroy America, or the West for that matter.
 
It's always the same story, isn't it? These islamist extremists generalize and blame Americans in general for that movie, although 99.9% of Americans have never heard of it until very recently, and a majority probably considers it very bad for various reasons.

Then, many people in America and the West generalize and blame Muslims in these countries in general, although only a minority actually got violent or supports the violence, while a majority of Egyptians and Libyans, while disliking the movie, would never commit violence because of it.

And there goes the hate spiral.
 
We should be apologizing for that film for its heinous production values alone.

I've seen better pieces by high school kids.

"Sorry. Some of us are stupid assholes, ut we have free speech in America so we have to put up with it." Is a perfectly American statement.

We just need to let them know that we let South Park handle our light work.

I'm sure they're working on an episode as we speak.

"Some Christians made a movie about Muslims! Dumb! Dumb! Dumb! Dumb! Dumb!"
 
That's a rather difficult task, as evidenced by your constant broadbrushing of the entirety of the Islamic community based on half cocked gut assumptions. I myself usually make judgements based on actions instead. I simply don't feel the overwhelming majority of muslims seek to destroy America, or the West for that matter.

My impression is that a majority of Muslims indeed holds very wacky anti-Western views, and most don't really know what freedom of speech is, and they just wait for opportunities to be offended -- but at the same time, most are not violent and will vent their anger verbally at worst. Those who actually take up arms are few.
 
It's always the same story, isn't it? These islamist extremists generalize and blame Americans in general for that movie, although 99.9% of Americans have never heard of it until very recently, and a majority probably considers it very bad for various reasons.

Then, many people in America and the West generalize and blame Muslims in these countries in general, although only a minority actually got violent or supports the violence, while a majority of Egyptians and Libyans, while disliking the movie, would never commit violence because of it.

And there goes the hate spiral.

The Egyptians and the Libyans should stand up to the Islamofacists and it would go a long way to finding common ground.

I mean, all the stupidity is going on in their world, not ours.
 
That's a rather difficult task, as evidenced by your constant broadbrushing of the entirety of the Islamic community based on half cocked gut assumptions. I myself usually make judgements based on actions instead. I simply don't feel the overwhelming majority of muslims seek to destroy America, or the West for that matter.

Therein lies the problem. You don't know a regular Muslim from a terrorist Muslim, and neither does anyone else. Instead we get the usual hackneyed response of 'not all Muslims are terrorists'. We know that. We really, really do. If all muslims were terrorists it would make the job of defending ourselves a great deal easier, wouldn't it? Of course we must also keep in mind that they all belong to a similar fraternity and few quit in disgust at the actions of their theological brethren.

When irate Muslims exclaim, "Death To America", do they mean just certain states in America? Do you think that's a subject of debate among Muslims? I doubt it. When they say "Death to America" it probably refers to western civilization, with no exceptions.

Perhaps we can negotiate with them. I say give them Germany, Vermont and Prince Edward Island. Maybe then they'll shut up and go away.
 
Go **** myself? I'm not going to go **** myself. I'm going to call it like I see it.

Whenever somebody suggests that to me I consider it a comliment.

A fellow would have to be awfully well-hung to accomplish such a feat, wouldn't he?
 
The Egyptians and the Libyans should stand up to the Islamofacists and it would go a long way to finding common ground.

I agree, the less extreme Egyptians and Libyans should stand up against the islamofascists. At very least against such acts of violence.

That's why I think we should target our criticism more specifically and avoid to needlessly offend those Muslims we need on our side. Hate speech that equally offends violent nutjobs and decent non-violent Muslims alike is hurting our cause to single out the extremists and to dry out sympathy on the side of the less extremes.

As for stupidity alone, I'm not sure we're really less stupid in the West than in Muslim countries -- but when it comes to stupid violence, I agree, they certainly hold a top position in these regards.
 
The Egyptians and the Libyans should stand up to the Islamofacists and it would go a long way to finding common ground.

I mean, all the stupidity is going on in their world, not ours.
70% of Egypt just Voted in the Islamo-fascists; Muslim Brotherhood and Salafis.
The always tricky... 'moderate' Islam.
 
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