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US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

Making the middle class pay more taxes while cutting their programs is a sure recipe for disasterous results.

That is a lie. Nothing the Romney/Ryan campaign is proposing will raise the taxes on the middle class. That is an Obama campaign distortion.

Taking more money from those that spend it all in the economy is self-defeating as all that extra money will come right out of consumer spending and the GDP.

Again, that is not what is being proposed. But if you want to hang your hat on the distortions that Axlerod feeds you instead of actually looking at it objectively then there is little I can do for you.

Another recession will be the result. Is that what you think we need?

I got news for you, projection is all Obama can do....You say that adopting a different course would send us into recession right? Well, that it directly the opposite of what the CBO says. In fact, they say that continuing what Obama is proposing we do, will plummet the US into a deeper recession than that which we supposedly just came out of....

Today, CBO released its updated budget and economic forecast. The report shows that pending tax increases and arbitrary spending cuts would send the U.S. economy into another economic recession and drive the unemployment rate above 9 percent by the end of 2013. Only House Republicans have passed legislation to avoid this recession by stopping the tax hike and replacing the sequestration with common-sense spending reductions.

CBO's Updated Budget and Economic Outlook - Democrat Inaction Will Cause Another Recession - GOP.gov
 
So the 2001 recession was due to investors getting terrified after they nominated Bush. I have heard the strangest things in my life, but this is beyond ridiculous.
Not familiar with the impacts of "uncertainty", eh? Turn in your right-wing decoder ring and depart in disgrace.

Give me one reason why I should take you seriously.
LOL! Give me a reason to believe that one more would matter.
 
Not familiar with the impacts of "uncertainty", eh? Turn in your right-wing decoder ring and depart in disgrace.
I am quite familiar with uncertainty, and uncertainty has a large effect on the economy.

However that does not make your retarded argument any better. And don't bring left or right into this debate. Both the left and the right disagrees with you here.

LOL! Give me a reason to believe that one more would matter.
You are right, it wouldn't.

Such a shame though. You actually know a lot of facts, but you squander it by being extremly partisan. Because of that you will end up making worse analysis than people like Sarah Palin.
 
I am quite familiar with uncertainty, and uncertainty has a large effect on the economy.
Yet you bristle at the notion that a guy coming out of left field with a boatload of system destabilizing ideas in his head might engender enough apprehensive "large effect on the economy" to send it into a mild recession.

However that does not make your retarded argument any better.
Aw, was it retarded?

And don't bring left or right into this debate. Both the left and the right disagrees with you here.
Who appointed you Bulgarian Judge? What are your bona fides for standing in for any side at all?

You are right, it wouldn't.
The streak continues.

Such a shame though. You actually know a lot of facts, but you squander it by being extremly partisan.
Unfortunately, knowing all these facts makes it all but impossible to support anything that Republicans say or do. They are a lie-based community. I'm not going to get on board with that.

Because of that you will end up making worse analysis than people like Sarah Palin.
No one has ever paid Sarah Palin for economc research and analysis.
 
Yet you bristle at the notion that a guy coming out of left field with a boatload of system destabilizing ideas in his head might engender enough apprehensive "large effect on the economy" to send it into a mild recession.
Yes, I think I made that quite clear that Bush presence did not cause the 2001 recession. If you want to read about what everyone apart from you thinks, then read here Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No one has ever paid Sarah Palin for economc research and analysis.
No one has paid you either.
 
Thread: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995...

and the Republicans aren't finished yet!
 
Wow. Cardinal Fang is off the reservation.
 
I think the problem can be better traced to when we began outsourcing to china and other countries so heavily.
 
I think the problem can be better traced to when we began outsourcing to china and other countries so heavily.

Well, that IMHO, can be traced back to when we became a "service based" economy, instead of a manufacturing based one.
 
Yes, I think I made that quite clear that Bush presence did not cause the 2001 recession.
Lack of clarity was not the problem.

If you want to read about what everyone apart from you thinks, then read here Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nothing in the wikipedia article contradicts a single thing I have said.

No one has paid you either.
They have for 40+ years and still do, and the total has come to quite a pile of money.
 
Lack of clarity was not the problem.

Nothing in the wikipedia article contradicts a single thing I have said.
Really? Where do they talk about Bush presence is the cause of the slowdown in 2001?

However they talk specifically about the NASDAQ bubble. Bubbles actually have an impact on economic performance.

If your point has any merit, why don't you edit the article and put in "Bush presence caused the slowdown as investors got terrified of the thought of him being elected". I wonder how long time it will take before it will be reverted.

They have for 40+ years and still do, and the total has come to quite a pile of money.
Stop lying.

Well can't we say the same with Obama then. Obama presence caused the recession in 2007. Investors got so terrified when they realized Obama may get elected so they sent US into an recession.

Or do they only get terrified from right wing candidates? Because as we know all investors are left wing right. :doh
 
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Camlon coming through with the critical thinking. Nicely done.
 
Really? Where do they talk about Bush presence is the cause of the slowdown in 2001?
That would be affirming Bush as the cause. As I stated, nothing in the wikipedia article contradicts anything I said. Affirming and contradicting are pretty much so different from each other as to be opposites. The wikipedia article does not in fact talk about causes of the Lesser Bush Recession at all. It describes contemporaneous events and leaves things at that point.

However they talk specifically about the NASDAQ bubble.
Just as predicted -- nothing to talk about but the NASDAQ. The NASDAQ as already noted is a secondary and inherently volatile market. I have already given reasons for the run-up and deflation of the NASDAQ that have nothing whatsoever to do with any sort of tech bubble bursting. If there ever was a tech bubble, it was still inflating in 2000 and still is today.

Bubbles actually have an impact on economic performance.
Really? Where was all this impact you refer to? Can you point to it? What was going on with the DJIA at the time? What was the impact there? Where was there devastation anywhere?

If your point has any merit, why don't you edit the article and put in "Bush presence caused the slowdown as investors got terrified of the thought of him being elected". I wonder how long time it will take before it will be reverted.
If I felt like investing the time, I would. Your encouragement would not be necessary. In the meantime, why don't you stop helplessly trying to refute posts by linking to articles that don't refute anything that was said?

Stop lying.
LOL! Can't face up to reality, eh? What a surprise. All of my degrees are in economics and I have been in (rather successful) professional public and private sector practice in that very field for more than forty years.

Well can't we say the same with Obama then. Obama presence caused the recession in 2007. Investors got so terrified when they realized Obama may get elected so they sent US into an recession.
No, because the facts are not in any sort of alignment with such a theory. Obama was a long-shot candidate just beginning a Presidential campaign in 2007. Meanwhile the federal funds target had already gone from 1% to 5.25%, the housing market had already cracked, and thanks to the efforts of unrestrained cowboy capitalists on Wall Street, mortgage default rates were already on the rise. The credit crisis was a done deal by that point.

There would of course have been a period of business caution before and after the election of 2008, especially if the oucome had been perceived as actually in doubt, but Bush and his bunch of inept bungler cronies had made sure that any such event would be obliterated by the staggering depths and proportions of the already long in progress Great Bush Recession.

Or do they only get terrified from right wing candidates? Because as we know all investors are left wing right. :doh
Once again for the hard of hearing, all elections where a change in administration is certain are expected to come with a pre- and post-election period of caution. In 2000, that caution was significantly amplified because one of the candidates was proposing to dismantle decade-old economic structures that had led to unprecedented national prosperity, replacing them with extremist notions that no serious person could have put any actual faith in. Unfortunately, it was indeed the polarizing extremist candidate who became the one to take office. Faith in him and his policies continued to falter until 9/11 put a different menu on the table.
 
Really? Where was all this impact you refer to?
If you don't know that bubbles affect markets, then open a economics text book.

If I felt like investing the time, I would. Your encouragement would not be necessary. In the meantime, why don't you stop helplessly trying to refute posts by linking to articles that don't refute anything that was said?
Such a lame excuse. You don't have time to add one sentence on wikipedia. But you do obviously have time to post here here all the time. As pointed out, if your point has any merit you should be able to change it.

So why aren't you? Are you afraid those lame people at wikipedia would laugh in your face, after you tried to use yourself as a source?

LOL! Can't face up to reality, eh? What a surprise. All of my degrees are in economics and I have been in (rather successful) professional public and private sector practice in that very field for more than forty years.
I never contested that you have a degree in economics. A lot of people do, that doesn't mean they get economics. However the rest of your post is a lie. No one is interested in your lies. Am I talking about myself here? Why do you feel the need to pretend you are something you are not?

If you were so successful, why are you posting so much here. I know very well that old people who come to political forums, and talk about how awesome they think they are, are not successful at all. They are running away from something.

Real successful people do not feel the need to talk about how successful they think they are. They don't care.

No, because the facts are not in any sort of alignment with such a theory. Obama was a long-shot candidate just beginning a Presidential campaign in 2007. Meanwhile the federal funds target had already gone from 1% to 5.25%, the housing market had already cracked, and thanks to the efforts of unrestrained cowboy capitalists on Wall Street, mortgage default rates were already on the rise. The credit crisis was a done deal by that point.
Oh.. right, it was just the timing. However Democrats took over congress earlier. So using your arguments I guess the property markets headed south because they were afraid of democrats taking over.

Shall I tell you a secret? Elections does not mean jack. What kind of power do you think the President have? A president does not have power over congress, they do not have power over state policy. One of their only power is to veto bills. And in addition presidents tend to moderate themselves when they get in office. Who really has power is congress, and congress was heading democratic.

Your thinking is just as silly as republicans who think Obama getting kicked out of office will make a big difference. What they and you don't get is that investors don't care. Especially not in 2000 when confidence was high. They care about consumers, are anyone going to buy their products. That is why bubbles are so much more important, because when a bubble pops then demands drops.
 
If you don't know that bubbles affect markets, then open a economics text book.
There are no accepted textbooks that present your silly bubble theories. The vapid and deluded see bubbles everywhere. What's actually there is the simple fact that markets go both up and down. This is the nature of markets -- it's what they do. But the talentless are not able to see that far.

Such a lame excuse. You don't have time to add one sentence on wikipedia. But you do obviously have time to post here here all the time. As pointed out, if your point has any merit you should be able to change it.
No, material for wiki has to be tightly proofed and sourced. You've obviously never added anything to wiki before. And as I've posted many times, DP is a time filler for me. Today for example, I must wait for the UPS guy to show up with our packet of post-season baseball tickets (signature required in person). And it is raining outside. Thus, I have some free time between stages of kitty litter changing in which to disabuse the massively disinformed of some of their sillier notions.

So why aren't you? Are you afraid those lame people at wikipedia would laugh in your face, after you tried to use yourself as a source?
You are correct insofar as that was a claim that wikpedia does not accept original research. All of wikipedia is derivative information. Your correctness both begins and ends with that point, however.

I never contested that you have a degree in economics. A lot of people do, that doesn't mean they get economics. However the rest of your post is a lie. No one is interested in your lies.
I would have rather more than "a degree in economcis", and contrary to your pointless and feeble critiques, quite a number of people are and have been interested in my economic research and analysis over quite a long time. So much so that they have been willing to part with figures such as $300 per hour in order to obtain it. What is it that you do again?

Am I talking about myself here? Why do you feel the need to pretend you are something you are not?
Have you forgotten already? I noted that no one had ever paid Sarah Palin for economic research and analysis. Someone was then sufficiently out of the loop to suggest that no one had ever paid me either. I am merely again correcting someone who was ignorant of the facts.

If you were so successful, why are you posting so much here. I know very well that old people who come to political forums, and talk about how awesome they think they are, are not successful at all. They are running away from something.
May I suggest that you have no more future in psychology than you do in economics? Most of the last roughly 15 years of my economics work has been within the political sphere. By that I mean having one foot on K Street and the other on Capitol Hill. Maybe you are familiar with one or both of those from some once-upon-a-time ride past on a Tourmobile. But as I am in my late 60's now, I no longer have the energy for that on a full-time basis. It's a younger man's game. So, I'm easing now into semi-retirement, restricting work to that done through an LLC that I've long been a partner in. That lets me work only on what I want when I want, which presently means that work takes up maybe 35-40% of my time. I also direct my own modest 501(c)(3) charity and sit on the board of a larger one. There goes another 10-15% of my time. Still leaves a good chunk left over in which to amuse myself and potentially help others by cruising the relative slums of DP correcting the hapless right-wing blunderers as they blunder. I meanwhile don't bring any of this to the fore unless and until directly challenged on it. You won't find any mention of any of it in my profile, for example. But it was overtly put on the table here. Blame the guy who did that if you like.

Real successful people do not feel the need to talk about how successful they think they are. They don't care.
Quite so, I don't at this point need to care about having been in the top 1% of income for so long or in wealth terms, about being a millionaire this many times over, but I certainly suspect that you do which is why I mention it. Meanwhile, between my professional and charitable work, I've been quietly going one-on-one with very successful people for many, many years. I'd be pretty confident that I know more about the type than you do.

Oh.. right, it was just the timing. However Democrats took over congress earlier.
Democrats took control of Congess in January 2007. 2007 was later than 2006, not earlier. The credit crisis horses were all out of the barn by January 2007. Yet again, your notions are seen to be frauds based on easily refuted disinformation.

So using your arguments I guess the property markets headed south because they were afraid of democrats taking over.
Prices of long-term assets vary inversely with interest rates. Houses are long-term assets. Between mid-2004 and mid-2006 the federal funds target rate went from 1% to 5.25%. Can you do the math?

Shall I tell you a secret? Elections does not mean jack.
LOL!!! Why don't you post THAT on wikipedia and see how long it lasts? The grammar alone is atrocious.

What kind of power do you think the President have? A president does not have power over congress..
Of course not. This is why Presidents may only suggest new rules for earmarks.

...they do not have power over state policy...
Yes, they do. In faithfully executing the laws of the land, the very role of the Executive Branch is in fact to develop and apply state policy.

One of their only power is to veto bills.
Really? Not head of state? Not commander in chief of the military? Not the boss of every federal department? Not the guy whose staff drafts much of the legislation that Congress considers? I'm afraid there is an awful lot that has simply gotten past you. Civics is apparently right up there with economics and psychology.

And in addition presidents tend to moderate themselves when they get in office. Who really has power is congress, and congress was heading democratic.
Congress does not head. It either is or is not controlled by a particular party. It was controlled exclusively by Republicans during the years in which the history of the credit crisis was written. No Democrat had his hand on any federal lever of power at all. No Barney Frank. No Chris Dodd. No Nancy Pelosi. It was ALL Republicans ALL the time.

Your thinking is just as silly as republicans who think Obama getting kicked out of office will make a big difference.
LOL! It would make a huge and terrible difference. Fortunately, with each time Romney opens his fool mouth, it is becoming increasingly unlikely.

What they and you don't get is that investors don't care. Especially not in 2000 when confidence was high. They care about consumers, are anyone going to buy their products. That is why bubbles are so much more important, because when a bubble pops then demands drops.
This reminds of that game where you put word-dice into a cup, then roll them out on the table and see if you can make a sentence out of them. What a sorry and unsupportable ramble. You'd be better off just sticking to your crude attempts at personal insult.
 
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I think the problem can be better traced to when we began outsourcing to china and other countries so heavily.

Well, that IMHO, can be traced back to when we became a "service based" economy, instead of a manufacturing based one.

Do a little investigation, boys. Manufacturing output has soared in all of the world's twelve significant manufacturing economies over the past 20 years, and in every single one of them, manufacturing jobs have declined. China in fact has LOST more manufacturing jobs since 1995 than the US currently has. Like agriculture a century and more ago, manufacturing has simply lost its abiltiy to provide jobs for the masses. Better get used to it As usual, the "good old days" aren't coming back, depsite whatever energetic longing and pining you might do.
 
Untitled-5.jpg
 
Do a little investigation, boys. Manufacturing output has soared in all of the world's twelve significant manufacturing economies over the past 20 years, and in every single one of them, manufacturing jobs have declined. China in fact has LOST more manufacturing jobs since 1995 than the US currently has. Like agriculture a century and more ago, manufacturing has simply lost its abiltiy to provide jobs for the masses. Better get used to it As usual, the "good old days" aren't coming back, depsite whatever energetic longing and pining you might do.


Great, the complacence argument...See, this is where you tell us next that we should get used to 8% or higher unemployment, and every growing dependency on the government as the classes gulf widens....Right? Only in a socialist mindset is that a reality.
 
LOL! The truth of conflicting viewpoints is not decided through "manning up". This is as bad as the poster who tries to settle differences by challenging people to internet wagers of $100,000. Most of us grew out of that sort of stage at a fairly early age. If you wish to refute the various facts introduced in support of the earlier analysis of the Lesser Bush Recession, please feel free to do so. That however is the only valid and legitimate avenue that is open to you. This other rubbish is a complete waste of time.

If you similarly want to claim that there was some devastating tech bubble that operated at the time, please doument it. Peaks in the volatile NASDAQ put there in large part by such non-tech factors as rigged IPO's and recruited fools trying to play day-trader do not cut the mustard. But please do have another go at pointing out where any evidence of this awful tech-bubble burst could actually be found. Feel free in fact to do the same with suggestions that 9/11 was any sort of significant economic event. You cannot in fact accomplish either of these tasks and are apt to resort instead to additional silliness in response.

Your claim with respect to Presidents that "One of their only power is to veto bills" was dealt with (obliterated, actually) in Post-188. Remember?

Really? Not head of state? Not commander in chief of the military? Not the boss of every federal department? Not the guy whose staff drafts much of the legislation that Congress considers? I'm afraid there is an awful lot that has simply gotten past you. Civics is apparently right up there with economics and psychology.

The federal funds target had meanwhile been between 5% and 6% since 1994. There was an exception to 4.75% in late 98/early 99, and to 6.5% in late 1999. Go find an era comparable to the then-succeeding Bush era in which the rate was cut by more than 4% over two years, then held at unrealistically low levels for nearly three years, then raised again by more than 4% over two years. Let us know when you find a match. These precipitous moves by the way were signficant factors first in creating the potential for credit market issues, and then in triggering the massive conversion of all that potential into actuality. That's kind of the bad monetary policy part of the bad fiscal, monetary, and regulatory policy triple play that Republicans pulled off in ending a long inning of prosperity and financial well-being in this country.
 
Great, the complacence argument...See, this is where you tell us next that we should get used to 8% or higher unemployment, and every growing dependency on the government as the classes gulf widens....Right? Only in a socialist mindset is that a reality.
No, this is still where some people need to be reminded of the importance of dealing with facts and reality. US losses of manufacturing jobs have been at about the average rate for those top twelve manufacturing economies. Manufacturing simply no longer provides jobs for low-skilled workers. It doesn't provide them here and it deosn't provide them anywhere else in the world either. Meanwhile, while China may at last be drawing into a neck-and-neck situation with the US, one or the other of us is the largest manufacturing economy in the world and the other is second by an eyelash. If you don't face the facts, you won't understand the problems and won't be able to identify or support any realistic solutions. You'll get things confused instead with silly partisan drivel over the unemployment rate.
 
LOL! The truth of conflicting viewpoints is not decided through "manning up". This is as bad as the poster who tries to settle differences by challenging people to internet wagers of $100,000. Most of us grew out of that sort of stage at a fairly early age. If you wish to refute the various facts introduced in support of the earlier analysis of the Lesser Bush Recession, please feel free to do so. That however is the only valid and legitimate avenue that is open to you. This other rubbish is a complete waste of time.
Again, if you are not even able to change Wikipedia, then you don't have much of an argument. There is a reason why you use way more time debating why you are not going to change wikipedia, than what it would take to just do it.

If you similarly want to claim that there was some devastating tech bubble that operated at the time, please doument it. Peaks in the volatile NASDAQ put there in large part by such non-tech factors as rigged IPO's and recruited fools trying to play day-trader do not cut the mustard. But please do have another go at pointing out where any evidence of this awful tech-bubble burst could actually be found. Feel free in fact to do the same with suggestions that 9/11 was any sort of significant economic event. You cannot in fact accomplish either of these tasks and are apt to resort instead to additional silliness in response.
I never claimed there was a devastating bubble. I said there was a bubble that caused the slowdown, and not the thought of Bush getting elected. Remember that the economy didn't even enter into recession, so it wasn't that serious.

I am still waiting for you to give sources, here are some more that agrees with me that the dotcom bubble was an important cause. Before 2001 there was an over investment in the tech industry.

The Dot-com Bubble | Stock Market Crash!
A Tale Of Two Bubbles - NYTimes.com (thats Paul Krugman btw.)
Dot-com bubble - MisesWiki (mises)
Both sides disagree with you.

I think this graph show well what caused the slowdown. In what way is a drop in 150K tech jobs just in San Jose insignificant. Why would it have such a large effect on tech jobs when you claim it was fear of Bush getting elected that caused this?

ch1_csa12tech.gif


Your claim with respect to Presidents that "One of their only power is to veto bills" was dealt with (obliterated, actually) in Post-188. Remember?
I never meant that their only power is veto bills, but that is the only one where they can have a large influence. Being head of the departments does not mean much, and neither does commander in chief. At least if you talk about in term of economics under normal circumstances. And you never disputed that.

Because of presidents limited power, there is no reason to fear them. Only a few radical leftists would stop investing due to fear of Bush getting elected, and generally they would not invest in the first place.

The federal funds target had meanwhile been between 5% and 6% since 1994. There was an exception to 4.75% in late 98/early 99, and to 6.5% in late 1999. Go find an era comparable to the then-succeeding Bush era in which the rate was cut by more than 4% over two years, then held at unrealistically low levels for nearly three years, then raised again by more than 4% over two years. Let us know when you find a match. These precipitous moves by the way were signficant factors first in creating the potential for credit market issues, and then in triggering the massive conversion of all that potential into actuality. That's kind of the bad monetary policy part of the bad fiscal, monetary, and regulatory policy triple play that Republicans pulled off in ending a long inning of prosperity and financial well-being in this country.
Now you are changing the subject. The reality is that interest rates started increasing way before Bush got elected, and even before he was close to being nominated. You said 2004 was the beginning of the financial crisis, why can't I say the same about 1999 and the dotcom bubble. And why would Federal Reserve increase interest rates in the first place. If it is just fear of Bush getting elected, then they would decrease interest rates. Maybe because the economy was getting too overheated?

Then the reaction to the NASDAQ bubble was an overreaction. I have said before that cutting 4% over 2 years should never have been done, and it was a significant cause of the 2007 recession. But that doesn't make your point any better that Bush is somehow the cause of the 2001 slowdown, because investors were terrified of the thought of him getting elected.

And I am still waiting for you to give any source who supports your claim. (and change wikipedia)
 
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Again, if you are not even able to change Wikipedia, then you don't have much of an argument. There is a reason why you use way more time debating why you are not going to change wikipedia, than what it would take to just do it.
This is what, your third admission that you have no case to make here other than to demand that I go change wikipedia? Here's a hint: That's not a case at all. This is a debate forum, not a hoop-jumping forum. If you are not able to debate, just hang up and try your call again.

I never claimed there was a devastating bubble. I said there was a bubble that caused the slowdown, and not the thought of Bush getting elected.
Reminder: Your entire thesis is that some awful tech/dot-com bubble was the cause of the 2001 recession. Yet there are no identifiable traces of this bubble that can possibly have been severe enough to have pushed a strong national economy -- the largest in the world -- into a general recession. Your theory is a bunch of manufactured fluff and rumor that has no substance behind it at all.

Remember that the economy didn't even enter into recession, so it wasn't that serious.
What? The economy was in recession from March to November 2001. You could look it up but obviously haven't. Uncertainty and dislocation effects associated with George W Bush were a principal cause of this recession.

I am still waiting for you to give sources, here are some more that agrees with me that the dotcom bubble was an important cause. Before 2001 there was an over investment in the tech industry.
None of these sources agrees with you. They report what I predicted earlier -- that select and particular markets went up and then they went down again. All markets do this. This is normal market behavior. There is nothing cited to connect these micro- and sometimes extreme micro-level movements with the macro trends of the broader economy.

("over-investment" is meanwhile an after-the-fact buzzword that has no actual use or meaning.)

I think this graph show well what caused the slowdown.
LOL! The graphs show what happened only in the tech sector and only in twelve locations, half of which did experience a significant employment peak and half of which didn't. No such peaks were seen at macro levels.

In what way is a drop in 150K tech jobs just in San Jose insignificant. Why would it have such a large effect on tech jobs when you claim it was fear of Bush getting elected that caused this?
Actually, I hadn't previously mentioned any events in San Jose. It is only you who needs to in your ever more desperate attempts to grab at micro-level straws. There was a general recession in the US economy during 2001. That downturn first evidenced itself in a marked softening in GPDI over late 2000. Some of that was expected given the certainty of a change in administration. The sizable and growing excess was due in large part to a growing lack of confidence in Bush generally and in his extreme economic policies in particular. Some portion of it was no doubt due to Bush's own incessant preaching of gloom and doom in arguing a non-existent need for tax cuts for the rich. Those tax cuts were enacted in June 2001 -- with various provisions retroactive -- and they did nothing.

I never meant that their only power is veto bills, but that is the only one where they can have a large influence. Being head of the departments does not mean much, and neither does commander in chief. At least if you talk about in term of economics under normal circumstances. And you never disputed that.
Pathetic. Your claim was clear. And just as clearly worthless.

Now you are changing the subject.
No, you claimed that there was some parallel to the 2004-06 increases in the federal funds target rate that began in mid-1999. I merely point out that in fact there was not such a thing.

The reality is that interest rates started increasing way before Bush got elected, and even before he was close to being nominated.
That's not reality at all, as has been pointed out previously. Rates had been remarkably stable since 1994.

You said 2004 was the beginning of the financial crisis...
Correction, I said that the credit crisis grew up between 2002 and 2006. These years were spent by Wall Street et al. in producing large volumes of mortgage paper that could not hold up in the event of significant increases in interest rates. 2004 through 2006 saw signficant increases in interest rates.

...why can't I say the same about 1999 and the dotcom bubble.
Because none of it is even remotely true.

And why would Federal Reserve increase interest rates in the first place. If it is just fear of Bush getting elected, then they would decrease interest rates. Maybe because the economy was getting too overheated?
Read at least some history. Interest rates were lowered through the Lesser Bush Recession. They were lowered again after 9/11. When the Tax Cuts for the Rich failed, the Fed pledged to keep rates low for as long as it took for economic activity to pick up. Two years later they finally began a long series of quarter-point increases that led back to 5.25% by mid-2006. Too many phony mortgages had in the meantime been created to withstand that. Warnings had been given. They weren't heeded.

I have said before that cutting 4% over 2 years should never have been done, and it was a significant cause of the 2007 recession.
Nothing you have said has made any actual sense and this doesn't either. You are now arguing against the use of rate cuts as a response to recessions and negative exogenous shocks. You are becoming only more and more addled and illogical.
 
This is what, your third admission that you have no case to make here other than to demand that I go change wikipedia? Here's a hint: That's not a case at all. This is a debate forum, not a hoop-jumping forum. If you are not able to debate, just hang up and try your call again.
Oh... right you were too busy to change wikipedia. Again, it is quite clear why you are more willing to debate why you are not going to edit wikipedia than actually doing it. That is because you lack a case. You can try to make all sorts of pathetic excuses, but we can all see them for what they are.

Reminder: Your entire thesis is that some awful tech/dot-com bubble was the cause of the 2001 recession. Yet there are no identifiable traces of this bubble that can possibly have been severe enough to have pushed a strong national economy -- the largest in the world -- into a general recession. Your theory is a bunch of manufactured fluff and rumor that has no substance behind it at all.
500K tech jobs out of 2.5 million is a big deal. I feel sorry for you if you can't see that. I also hope you have learned about the multiplier effect in your economics degree. These people hired a lot of people to work for them and bought a lot of goods for their industry. Hence, 500K tech jobs lead to a lot more job losses in other industry.

What? The economy was in recession from March to November 2001. You could look it up but obviously haven't. Uncertainty and dislocation effects associated with George W Bush were a principal cause of this recession.
You are right, but it wasn't much of a recession. I mean GDP fell with a total of 0.3% GDP. List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also this link disagrees with you too, and this link says it directly.


None of these sources agrees with you.
:lamo

Good attempt. They all agree with me. You need to have a pretty imaginative mind if you read this as anything else that the recession being the cause of the dotcom bubble.

"By early 2000, reality started to sink in. Investors soon realized that the dot-com dream had devolved into a classic speculative bubble. Within months, the NASDAQ stock index crashed from 5,000 to 2,000. Hundreds of stocks such as Pet.com, which once had multi-billion dollar market capitalizations, were off the map as quickly as they appeared. Panic selling ensued as the stock market’s value plunged by trillions of dollars. The NASDAQ further plunged to 800 by 2002. In 2001, the U.S. economy experienced a post dot-com bubble recession, which forced the Federal Reserve to repeatedly cut interest rates to stop the bleeding. "
http://www.stock-market-crash.net/dot-com-bubble/

Why would you talk that specifically about the NASDAQ, dot-com and call it a dot-com bubble recession if you think it is irrelevant to the recession?

("over-investment" is meanwhile an after-the-fact buzzword that has no actual use or meaning.)
:lamo

More stupid comments. If I choose to take up huge loans and then investing. Then when the interest rate goes up I go bankcrupt. Am I not overinvesting? And you call yourself an economist.

LOL! The graphs show what happened only in the tech sector and only in twelve locations, half of which did experience a significant employment peak and half of which didn't. No such peaks were seen at macro levels.
Such a lame excuse. About 500K of 2.5 million tech jobs got destroyed. That is not insignificant.

You didn't answer the important question. Why would the tech markets be affected in such a large way when they are only scared of Bush getting elected.

Pathetic. Your claim was clear. And just as clearly worthless.
So that is how you answer when you are unable to respond. As pointed out, the President have limited power. Only an idiot would close down their business because they are scared of Bush getting elected.

No, you claimed that there was some parallel to the 2004-06 increases in the federal funds target rate that began in mid-1999. I merely point out that in fact there was not such a thing.
Because that has Cardinal Fang decided? You need to provide arguments to support your points.


That's not reality at all, as has been pointed out previously. Rates had been remarkably stable since 1994.
I reccomend you to get some glasses if you can't see the increase from 1999. It increased with nearly 2% over 1 year. That is not stable. Do you think they increased it just for fun, or because the market was getting overheated?

Because none of it is even remotely true.
because that has Cardinal Fang decided? Hint, you need to provide arguments to support your points.

Read at least some history. Interest rates were lowered through the Lesser Bush Recession. They were lowered again after 9/11. When the Tax Cuts for the Rich failed, the Fed pledged to keep rates low for as long as it took for economic activity to pick up. Two years later they finally began a long series of quarter-point increases that led back to 5.25% by mid-2006. Too many phony mortgages had in the meantime been created to withstand that. Warnings had been given. They weren't heeded.
Trying to change topic again?

Again, if it was Bush that was the cause interest rates would drop. They increased, before they dropped. Why would they increase before they drop if it is only due to fear of Bush.

You increase rates, because you fear a bubble. You decrease rates if people are underinvestment for a stupid reason, such as that Bush may get elected. Not only does every single source disagree with you, but the markets did too.


Nothing you have said has made any actual sense and this doesn't either. You are now arguing against the use of rate cuts as a response to recessions and negative exogenous shocks. You are becoming only more and more addled and illogical.
Not supporting your opinions do not mean you do not make sense. There is a reason I pointed out that Sarah Palin makes better analysis than you do. I don't believe stimilus is the answer to all crisis. I believe markets need to adjust first before you can start with stimilus, or else you are just feeding a bubble.

But I notice that again you fail to provide any sources for your comments and you refuse to change wikipedia. I have provided 5 sources now who all refute your position. You haven't got a single one. Have you ever though about why you are unable to provide any sources. And no the answer is not, "I am awsome, and know better than everyone else in the world".

Also, learn how to quote. You know it is possible to quote more than one sentence. I mean, imagine if you meet yourself in a debate. Your post lengths would rise exponentially.
 
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