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Thread: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    And you got that from where, your ass? I have already given data that proves this point wrong. http://inequality.org/wp-content/upl...ans.png?4c9b33

    I am done with you!
    Oh dear me, mr calm on the professor from kiwi land has given up, waived the white flag.

    The defender of corporate fascism and immoral elitism cannot stomach a simple debate and thus leaves pretending to be victorious.

    These supreme fascist kings and queens most of whom are criminal sociopaths are defended by the moral silver knight named camlon.

    You will need to explain your slave based elitist fascist tyranny that requires slaves and blind consumers in order to perpetuate its pathetic decadence and self destruction to God whence you take your last breath.

    There will be no crevice to hide your putrid carcass and rotting soul.

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So now we know what the official liberal position is. Cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    His post seemed to be made up completely of talking points meant to promote one side over the other: I doubt he's an actual plant, but he does seem to be a cheerleader. Never a good quality.
    Had you intended to dispute any of the factual bases for the points raised in the post? It seems not. It seems that you were content with the baseless fluff of simply labeling such facts as "talking points" and then moving on. That's the sort of attitude that people take when their own positions are not based on facts at all, but rather crumble at the approach of them. And we do have rather a lot of that sort to contend with around these parts.

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Let's not check our critical thinking at the door (which is what saying Bush is the worst president ever while saying Obama is FDR) in order to forward partisan politics.
    Reading is fundamental. The post asserted that Obama is like FDR in that there is no established "average" for the work that either one them had to undertake upon inauguration. There is nothing partisan about such a statement, but there certainly may be in such a deeply flawed critcism of it.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 09-28-12 at 12:29 PM.

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by barbnf View Post
    "what's new when four times as many of our associates and relations drop out of the work force than find a job" ...

    Ahem! ... This is a REPUBLICAN "talking point" ... Actually, approximately, 10,000 Baby Boomers are retiring EVERY DAY ... That's about 300,000 per month of the approximately 400,000 who "drop out" ... IF you believe what the Republicans are trying to SELL ... YOU are not READING FOR UNDERSTANDING ...

    As for the level of poverty and homelessness in America today ... THAT has been developing for YEARS! ... The DISPARITY in income accelerated under the Bush Administration ... and IF allowed to do so again, the Republicans will exascerbate that SAD statistic ...

    The Middle Class DESERVES better and President Obama IS a champion of the Middle Class ... I have watched him since he won the Democratic nomination and although I supported then Senator Hillary Clinton, I have come to UNDERSTAND and TRULY APPRECIATE OUR great President! ...

    Some of our fellow citizens NEED to learn GRATITUDE ... We were SAVED from another GREAT DEPRESSION ... We did however experience a GREAT RECESSION, the WORST since the GREAT DEPRESSION ... We should ALL feel a GREAT DEAL OF GRATITUDE to President Obama and his Administration for delivering us ALL from the BRINK ... which the Republicans left us with ... OPEN YOUR EYES, PLEASE! ...
    The Republicans are mad that we are not in recession like the rest of the free world. Romney's got a plan that will fix that for sure.


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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Housing starts have been increasing and market inventory is down by nearly 25% year-over-year to roughly 6.5 months worth of sales. What's been most plainly lacking is first-time buyers, this due to a limited supply of homes at lower prices and overly restrictive lending practices.
    I think issues like student loan debt is playing a part here as well.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    If the economy had come back as it should people would be snapping up houses at these bargain basement prices and housing starts would be on the rise.
    One more time...housing starts ARE on the rise. And more would be occurring if credit terms were not so overly restrictive. What we have on that score today is just more evidence that risk is underpriced when times are good and overpriced when times are tough. It would be better if we stopped being so willing to shoot ourselves in the foot under either circumstance.

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    It has precisely to do with that you said. You are blaming drop in living standards on GOP policies and Bush when democrat states like California are doing worse.

    Now you are blaming the downturn on the GOP. What was Democrats proposing that would avert the crisis in 2001-2005? Democrats like Barney Frank were claiming there was no housing bubble in 2005, and recommended congress to expand home ownership. Democrats like Maxine Waters and Gregory Meeks were saying "don't regulate Fannie Mae or Freddy Mac".

    The financial crisis would have happened under democrat leadership too. It was a collective failure, and it really shows your bias when you say otherwise. You should know better.
    The housing bubble could only have happened under GOP control. Can you imagine if Democrats asked Fannie Mae to buy $440 billion in no money down mortgages for "poor" people?
    GW Bush did and the GOP Congress just sat there and smiled.

    Fannie and Freddie were just another investor for the banks to swindle. GW Bush himself turned bankers shill and boasted that he got Fannie to commit to 440 Billion $ to buy the new subprimes in his 2002 "Minority Housing Initiative Program." He even evoked 911 and promised that the plan would "turn incredible evil into incredible good," I swear, I'm not making that up. Heres the bit about Fannie in 2002


    And so, therefore, I've called -- yesterday, I called upon the private sector to help us and help the home buyers. We need more capital in the private markets for first-time, low-income buyers. And I'm proud to report that Fannie Mae has heard the call and, as I understand, it's about $440 billion over a period of time. They've used their influence to create that much capital available for the type of home buyer we're talking about here. It's in their charter; it now needs to be implemented. Freddie Mac is interested in helping. I appreciate both of those agencies providing the underpinnings of good capital.
    HUD Archives: President George W. Bush Speaks to HUD Employees on National Homeownership Month (6/18/02)

    Can you believe he actually said "It's in their charter, it NOW needs to be implemented"? If you know why?, it all will make sense. Anyway there's plenty more, but I fear your brain might explode.

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    The Republicans are mad that we are not in recession like the rest of the free world. Romney's got a plan that will fix that for sure.
    This has nothing to do with Obama or the Republicans. The US isn't in a recession currently because it is not located in the Eurozone.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Now you are blaming the downturn on the GOP. What was Democrats proposing that would avert the crisis in 2001-2005? Democrats like Barney Frank were claiming there was no housing bubble in 2005, and recommended congress to expand home ownership. Democrats like Maxine Waters and Gregory Meeks were saying "don't regulate Fannie Mae or Freddy Mac".
    Quite the desperate stretch to implicate others not actually involved. The credit crisis that bled out into the Great Bush Recession grew up between 2002 and 2006. No Democrat had a hand on any lever of power during that timeframe. All Republicans all the time. There is no such thing as "shared responsibility" for this at all.

    As for the GSE's, Democrats (and sensible Republicans) in Congress merely resisted the Bush administration's efforts to destroy them and turn the mission over to Wall Street instead. Meanwhile, everyone realized that both real estate and financial markets were changing rapidly and that GSE-reform was overdue. Multiple bipartisan bills to do just that were developed on Capitol Hill, but the administration shot them down because they dealt only with safety-and-soundness issues and did not go far enough toward running the GSE's out of business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    The financial crisis would have happened under democrat leadership too.
    Not very likely. Tax Cuts for the Rich would never have been enacted and so would not have failed. There would have been no reason to freeze interest rates at extreme low levels, institutional investors would not suddenly have been drawn into secondary mortgage markets by a search for yield, Wall Street would not have perceived that demand and created the private-label securitzation shops that private brokers then fed enough slop into to poison the secondary markets thus creating the credit crisis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    It was a collective failure, and it really shows your bias when you say otherwise. You should know better.
    Not at all. It was an entirely one-sided disaster. Cowboy capitalists and the terrible fiscal, monetary, and regulatory policies of a bunch of laissez-faire, free-market Republicans. Bad medicine all around. But no Democrats.

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Fannie and Freddy were certainly lending to people who were subprime or taxpayers would not be forced to pay 200 billion in bailouts to them.
    Sheesh!!! At least get the basics down! Fannie and Freddie did not lend to anyone. They are not lenders. They purchase existing mortgage notes from the original lenders. This is how those original lenders recapitalize so that they can lend again. The GSE's then sell the notes they have acquired into secondary mortgage markets made up of large, institutional investors such as central and international banks, insurance companies, pensions funds, money-market funds, charitable trusts, university endowments, and the like. They used to sell notes one at a time, but that was rather ineffficient, so they began creating bundles of say 100 mortgages and selling participation shares in those. Such shares are called mortgage-backed securities. They are sold with a GSE guaranty. It is those guarantys to institutional investors that (where now necessary) are being paid by the government. Payments have become necessary in some cases because so many original mortgage holders have not been able to make their scheduled payments on account of having lost jobs and wealth due to the Republican-created Great Bush Recession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    What happened is that they dropped lending standards with the help from the government to not lose market share.
    LOL! Bush wanted nothing more than for the GSE's to lose market share, and eventually they did. Fannie Mae's market share for original purchases fell from more than 70% early in the decade to less than 25% by late 2006.

    Standards for conforming loans (i.e., loans that the GSE's would actually purchase) were lowered modestly, and for the same reason that they should be today -- they were preventing large numbers of perfectly well qualified and potentially profitable borrowers from obtaining conventional credit. The Wall Street private-label shops by comparison had practically no standards at all. They would take the slop that the GSE's wouldn't take and just about anything else as well. Then they'd sell it all to somebody else. Strip off the profit and sell off the risk. What a great game until the roof caved in on them. And the rest of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Again as stated, it was government policy to increase home ownership. To reduce lending standards is a good way to increase home ownership, and Democrats were the main supporters of relaxation of lending standards.
    Increasing home ownership has been a policy of every administration since the Great Depression. It was a national scandal when home ownership in fact declined under Reagan/Bush-41. Meanwhile, no one supported relaxation of lending standards. No law, rule, policy, or court decision has ever mandated that any lender make loans to unqualified borrowers. What did happen was that regulators charged with keeping just such things from happening stood by and allowed unscruplous private brokers to create all sorts of twisted loans that they knew full well could not be repaid through wanton abuse of particularly subprime credit markets. But that's a very different thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    First off sub-prime mortages are not the only reason,there was plenty of prime loans that defaulted.
    In the second wave, sure. Millions of people lost their jobs and their savings thanks to the Great Bush Recession. What would you have expected to happen? The first wave -- the one that actually triggered the credit crisis -- was heavily tilted toward tricked-out subprime loans that made the underwriters a lot of money and later cost the taxpayers a lot of money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    There are many things that could have prevented the crisis. For instance they could have not put interest rates at 1%. That would help a lot, as investors would just keep buying treasuries instead of gambling on houses.
    Interest rates were first cut to ward off investor panic after 9/11. Then Greenspan decided to keep them there long term because the Tax Cuts for the Rich had failed to generate any uptick in economic activity. Secondary mortgage markets were meanwhile, staid, plain-vanilla markets at the time. Famous for their safety, they suddenly offered attractive yields in comparison to 1%. Taking a position there was hardly gambling at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    If this was set up and combined with some federal requirements for whom can get loans the financial crisis would never happen.
    So you would have favored nationalizing the banking system? I thought that was only Commie statists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Again, this was a collective failure of the GOP and Democrats. Stop blaming one side because you don't like it. Try to be less biased.
    LOL!!! It was an exclusively Republican enterprise. Facbrications to the contrary are bilge.

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