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Thread: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

  1. #131
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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    It has precisely to do with that you said. You are blaming drop in living standards on GOP policies and Bush when democrat states like California are doing worse.
    California is not doing worse according to your chart.. it is in fact following the national trends..

    Now you are blaming the downturn on the GOP. What was Democrats proposing that would avert the crisis in 2001-2005? Democrats like Barney Frank were claiming there was no housing bubble in 2005, and recommended congress to expand home ownership. Democrats like Maxine Waters and Gregory Meeks were saying "don't regulate Fannie Mae or Freddy Mac".
    Because Fannie and Freddy were not the problem and they were under quite heavy regulation. For one the root cause of the problem, the private sub-prime mortgage market could not sell their crap to Fannie and Freddy because they were so heavily regulated.

    The financial crisis would have happened under democrat leadership too. It was a collective failure, and it really shows your bias when you say otherwise. You should know better.
    Again this what I stated.. however I put most of the blame on the GOP, but far from all. It was GOP policy to deregulate, pushed on by 2 GOPers in a GOP congress and signed into law by a Democrat. This deregulation lead to the unregulated private sub-prime mortgage market that was ultimately responsible for the financial melt down.
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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    That claim looks pretty false to me. Maybe you should do some research before you come with such absurd claims.


    You may not like it, but we need the rich.
    Thats what the rich tell you you! You need them. You cant live without them. Incidentally about 98% of everything you see around you was first invented and developed by tax payer funding - even this internet thing we are on now. Bill Gates personally invented very little - let alone the windows operating platform. The private and corporate sectors take very little initial risk and do very little genuine paradigm shifting innovation. This is especially the case in the Corpocracy of the USA - thats how your tyrannical fascist Oligarchy works

    I am not against having business leaders and CEOs etc - but lets not over compensate their real worth to society and turn society into an inhumane Plutocracy. In Japan the Top CEOs earn about 20 to 30 ttimes the least paid employee - and this is still the case today. In the USA of the past similar multiples were paid to top executives. Today the top executives are paid over 1000 times the wage of their least paid employee. A greed trend which is worsening even over the 2008 GFC.

    I suggest you look at the following data of the TOP 400 incomes earners in the USA and how much tax they paid in the past and how much they pay today (before you cast accusations relating to the accuracy of my posted data).
    IRS-top400tax-USAb.jpg
    Last edited by Klown; 09-27-12 at 07:17 AM.

  3. #133
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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    California is not doing worse according to your chart.. it is in fact following the national trends..
    Since 1989, US median household income has gone from 50624 to 50054. In California it has gone from 57810 to 53367. if you think that is following national trends, then you need some new glasses.

    Because Fannie and Freddy were not the problem and they were under quite heavy regulation. For one the root cause of the problem, the private sub-prime mortgage market could not sell their crap to Fannie and Freddy because they were so heavily regulated.
    Fannie and Freddy were certainly lending to people who were subprime or taxpayers would not be forced to pay 200 billion in bailouts to them. What happened is that they dropped lending standards with the help from the government to not lose market share. Again as stated, it was government policy to increase home ownership. To reduce lending standards is a good way to increase home ownership, and Democrats were the main supporters of relaxation of lending standards.

    Again this what I stated.. however I put most of the blame on the GOP, but far from all. It was GOP policy to deregulate, pushed on by 2 GOPers in a GOP congress and signed into law by a Democrat. This deregulation lead to the unregulated private sub-prime mortgage market that was ultimately responsible for the financial melt down.
    First off sub-prime mortages are not the only reason, there was plenty of prime loans that defaulted.

    You talk about Glass–Steagall Act. But what you forget to mentoion is that only 20% of Democrats voted against it. And it is not responsible for the meldown. Most of the things that was done during the housing boom was still possible with the Glass–Steagall Act, and it was easy to get around the few that wasn't. One of the reason it got reversed was because it was irrelavant.

    There are many things that could have prevented the crisis. For instance they could have not put interest rates at 1%. That would help a lot, as investors would just keep buying treasuries instead of gambling on houses. If this was set up and combined with some federal requirements for whom can get loans the financial crisis would never happen.

    Again, this was a collective failure of the GOP and Democrats. Stop blaming one side because you don't like it. Try to be less biased.

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    Thats what the rich tell you you! You need them. You cant live without them. Incidentally about 98% of everything you see around you was first invented and developed by tax payer funding - even this internet thing we are on now. Bill Gates personally invented very little - let alone the windows operating platform. The private and corporate sectors take very little initial risk and do very little genuine paradigm shifting innovation. This is especially the case in the Corpocracy of the USA - thats how your tyrannical fascist Oligarchy works
    You are again looking at it from the wrong perspective. If you talk about inventing, it was mostly universities.

    But who put the ideas that universities created to life. That was not the government, that was not the universities, that was businesses. If you don't like that model, then there are plenty of socialist countries in the world to choose from such as Cuba, and North Korea.

    I am not against having business leaders and CEOs etc - but lets not over compensate their real worth to society and turn society into an inhumane Plutocracy. In Japan the Top CEOs earn about 20 to 30 ttimes the least paid employee - and this is still the case today. In the USA of the past similar multiples were paid to top executives. Today the top executives are paid over 1000 times the wage of their least paid employee. A greed trend which is worsening even over the 2008 GFC.
    More bull****. Please write this down "I will not posts claims I have not researched. " This is the second time you come with absurd claims. Minimum wage in Japan is 16000 USD per year. Top CEOs in Japan are not earning 400K USD. 300 CEOs in Japan earn more than 1100K USD. The CEO of Nissan earns 11M USD. That is way more than 25 times.

    Also, why does it matter? These people lead big companies with billions in revenues. That is why they are willing to spend so much money on their CEOs, because they have a very large influence on the company. If you are right and they are squandering their money on CEOs, then they will lose market share as other who do not squander money on their CEOs will have lower prices.

    I suggest you look at the following data of the TOP 400 incomes earners in the USA and how much tax they paid in the past and how much they pay today (before you cast accusations relating to the accuracy of my posted data).
    Oh.. come on. This is just sad. I do not have a memory of a gold fish.

    Your claim was that forbes 400 has always seen rising incomes, i proved you wrong. In fact their wealth hasn't even increased since 2000. Your claim had nothing to do with taxes.

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    You are again looking at it from the wrong perspective. If you talk about inventing, es.
    A perspective cannot be wrong by definition, it's very much a subjective personal angle a person looks at a situation. You are entitled to your perspective, irrespective of whether you think it's supremely correct or not.

    You are also entitled to defend the fascist tyrannical corpocracy that enslaves you - that is your perspectively arrived at choice.

    The 20th century saw emergence of three forms of fascism. Bolshevism, Nazism and Corporatism. Each with their critical levels of propaganda in order to perusade their slaves, oops their citizens, that they don't have chains around their limbs.

    Tell me something. How did you feel when the fake free market ideology in the USA was abandoned in 2008, and bail outs and the nationalising of the US car industry was carried out by the socialist corporate welfare puppets in Washington?

    I am sure you quiet about the trillions that were funneled into the pockets of the corporates, banks and elite plutocrats, the very people who caused the GFC in the first place.

    Campion must have been as quiet as a mouse as corporate welfare chegues were handed out in theirmtrillionsnby BOTH major political parties in the US when in office.

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    You are also entitled to defend the fascist tyrannical corpocracy that enslaves you - that is your perspectively arrived at choice.
    No one enslaves you. The standard of living in the US if higher than anywhere on the globe with the same population. Europe is poorer, and everywhere else is poorer than Europe. Think about all the things you can take for granted. Do you think you could produce everything you use right now if you got together with 100 friends of yours and shared the output.

    Tell me something. How did you feel when the fake free market ideology in the USA was abandoned in 2008, and bail outs and the nationalising of the US car industry was carried out by the socialist corporate welfare puppets in Washington?
    Well I didn't like it of course, because I didn't support the policies that lead to the crisis. I have always been in favour of regulation to prevent politicians from taking advantage of their voters for financial or political gain. Also, I believe they should have cooled down the economy in 2001, instead of cutting interest rates and going on a spending binge to prevent a minor slowdown.

    I still believed some sort of bailouts were needed, as the economy was heading for collapse. US has done much better post crisis than Europe has despite the fact that US created the crisis. The European politicans are inflicting much more harm on their citizens than Americans are. That is because american politicians tend to be solution oriented, while European politicians tend to follow ideologies blindly, without thinking about reality or consulting experitize. In 2009 ECB thought Greece would do better than European average. And they still don't understand why things are going so wrong in Greece and other European countries.

    It is not about too much austerity or too little austerity. It is about the kind of austerity they are doing. They don't want to admit the negative consequences of the euro, hence they are not able to find solutions that will take the euro into account.

    I am sure you quiet about the trillions that were funneled into the pockets of the corporates, banks and elite plutocrats, the very people who caused the GFC in the first place.

    Campion must have been as quiet as a mouse as corporate welfare chegues were handed out in theirmtrillionsnby BOTH major political parties in the US when in office.
    Of course I didn't like it, but I think you are being too negative.

  7. #137
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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    I sometimes wonder if it is even worth it anymore to even address certain posters in here. Seems that some of the newer blood is coming in with an agenda of bitter rancor, rather than actual debate.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Of course I didn't like it, but I think you are being too negative.
    So now you say that you are appauled at the trillions of dollars of tax payers money that went to bail out banks, nationalist corporations (such as GMH in the car industry) AND yet you are convinced that WE need the rich???

    Intersting how you can be so generous and compassionate to the supremely rich, the clowns that caused the financial mess the planet is in, and the same very clowns who are feeding off the corporate welfare nipple. Criminal clowns! How many criminal Banking CEOs do you know of that were charged with any commercial missconduct? Any convictions? Any changes to the Corporate or Banking Acts? Any new regulations? Nope - its business as usual. Socialise costs and risks, whilst privatise and corporatise profits and gains. The CORPOCRACY is alive and kicking isnt it folks! The tyranny lives on!

    Are you aware that these corporations and TOP 400 incomes earners are now even richer than before the GFC in 2008?

    Now I wonder how that happened?

    What about the rest of the US population, are they better off since the 2008 GFC?

    "steal a lttle a they throw you in Jail, steal a lot and they make you King" (Robert Zimmerman, Infidels album, 1980s)

    It seems that you worship the elite Plutocrats and Tyrants in the hope that they may give you some crumbs - lol.

    How much do you think your vote is worth now, each time you cast it at a US election?

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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    Are you aware that these corporations and TOP 400 incomes earners are now even richer than before the GFC in 2008?
    And you got that from where, your ass? I have already given data that proves this point wrong. http://inequality.org/wp-content/upl...ans.png?4c9b33

    I am done with you!

  10. #140
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    Re: US Median Income Lowest Since 1995

    You talk about Glass–Steagall Act. But what you forget to mentoion is that only 20% of Democrats voted against it. And it is not responsible for the meldown. Most of the things that was done during the housing boom was still possible with the Glass–Steagall Act, and it was easy to get around the few that wasn't. One of the reason it got reversed was because it was irrelavant.
    One of the few things in your post with which I agree. Glass-Steagall was dead; congress just buried it.


    There are many things that could have prevented the crisis. For instance they could have not put interest rates at 1%. That would help a lot, as investors would just keep buying treasuries instead of gambling on houses. If this was set up and combined with some federal requirements for whom can get loans the financial crisis would never happen.

    Again, this was a collective failure of the GOP and Democrats. Stop blaming one side because you don't like it. Try to be less biased.
    I would argue that it's broader than that; it was a collective failure of everyone involved. But that's how bubbles operate. Leverage just amplified its bursting enormously.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 09-28-12 at 10:01 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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