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Thread: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

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    Re: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Nobody is "trumping" anyone's rights. In what way has this person's rights been infringed? You don't have a right to not be ridiculed for your life decisions or choice of expression. The government isn't threatening this man or forcibly compelling him to do anything, only asking him to think about the consequences of his actions. People here are completing blowing this out of proportion.

    The government clearly cannot prohibit the exercise of speech. But the constitution does not prohibit the government from challenging the views of others, expressing its own, or requesting that people act in certain ways for the good of others.
    You said that freedom of speech does not absolve someone of the obligation to act responsibly. So, my question, addressed to you, stands.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    From Mark Steyn
    Yes, from what I gather, iguanaman would rather give up on free speech than have it cause any trouble.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yes, from what I gather, iguanaman would rather give up on free speech than have it cause any trouble.
    I'd hate to anything dampen that traditional American spirit. Those would silence themselves and others should be convinced to respond otherwise. It's time to stand together.

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    Re: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I'd hate to anything dampen that traditional American spirit. Those would silence themselves and others should be convinced to respond otherwise. It's time to stand together.
    More than that, if you betray your own principle in the face of an angry mob, the angry mob is only going to get bolder.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    More than that, if you betray your own principle in the face of an angry mob, the angry mob is only going to get bolder.
    And that's just what happened.

    We should know by now that appeasement never works but it seems the temptation to appease is just too great.

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    Re: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And that's just what happened.
    Yes.

    We should know by now that appeasement never works but it seems the temptation to appease is just too great.
    Yes.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And that's just what happened.

    We should know by now that appeasement never works but it seems the temptation to appease is just too great.
    But, But....if we don't appease them, then we would have to fight them, and that would cost to much and endanger our entitlements. (for the lefties out there, yes, this is again sarcasm)
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Why is it the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff's place to do anything remotely like this? Everyone understands the second part, and that's all anyone needs to know, so the third part is just grandstanding for no apparent reason.

    That you suggest he should do this runs completely counter to the beginning of your post:



    And I also don't think anyone needs to broadcast it for any reason. There does not need to be a national statement about this video.
    Regarding the general, I was delivering a little hyperbole. However, I don't see at all how such an action would run counter. I myself would want to make clear that I agree with the Muslims: he is a total ass. I want them to know that our nation might even unanimously agree that he is an asshole for being incendiary, but that even then, our action ought to be to utterly defend both him and all other Americans against intimidation. I want them to know that being an asshole does not somehow dissolve one's freedom of speech.

    Letting them think that we don't think he is an asshole causes Middle Easterners to misunderstand our principles. I think it is important for them to understand. If they think we think that what he said was socially acceptable, then they come away with the conclusion that we defend him because we hate Islam. When they know we think he is an asshole, but that we are standing up to them anyway, they understand that we hate oppression and intimidation and that we profoundly believe in freedom. I want them to understand that, and the only way to do that is to short circuit the blindness their butthurt "feelings" are causing.

    Which is absolutely why we do need a national statement on the matter. We need a statement which says to them "back down, because we are not going to". But, I don't want that message to be clouded by their demagogues filling in the blank spaces, and making us out to hate Islam.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Top US military officer calls pastor over film | News by Country | Reuters



    This is of absolutely no concern to the US military, or even the US government.

    The concern of the US military and and the US government is to make it possible for people to have the freedom to do these kinds things, no matter how distasteful they may be.

    So, the job of the government, and of the military, is to say, outwardly, to these people who are offended, "yeah? Freedom's a bitch, and we defend her."
    The job of the US Military is to engage and destroy the enemies of the US, nothing else. If saving some US Soldiers and Marines lives means telling a pastor to cut the ****, then so be it.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: Top US military officer calls pastor over film

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Regarding the general, I was delivering a little hyperbole. However, I don't see at all how such an action would run counter. I myself would want to make clear that I agree with the Muslims: he is a total ass. I want them to know that our nation might even unanimously agree that he is an asshole for being incendiary, but that even then, our action ought to be to utterly defend both him and all other Americans against intimidation. I want them to know that being an asshole does not somehow dissolve one's freedom of speech.

    Letting them think that we don't think he is an asshole causes Middle Easterners to misunderstand our principles. I think it is important for them to understand. If they think we think that what he said was socially acceptable, then they come away with the conclusion that we defend him because we hate Islam. When they know we think he is an asshole, but that we are standing up to them anyway, they understand that we hate oppression and intimidation and that we profoundly believe in freedom. I want them to understand that, and the only way to do that is to short circuit the blindness their butthurt "feelings" are causing.

    Which is absolutely why we do need a national statement on the matter. We need a statement which says to them "back down, because we are not going to". But, I don't want that message to be clouded by their demagogues filling in the blank spaces, and making us out to hate Islam.
    No. By making a national statement, you give the mob reason to think their mob is legitimate. And then you invite them to riot about something else later.

    They should not be validated to any degree whatsoever. None at all.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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