Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

Grant · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Dittohead not! said:
First, I didn't attack or insult you, so made no "ad hominem" attacks.

No, you made an ad hominem attack on the alternative candidates. You also said these candidates would be "much worse" without describing how or in what area.

You also claimed " Holy crap, we'd have been missing Obama in a week". Really? For what reason?

Secondly, I did state an opinion that the names I mentioned would have been worse than Obama. That is just an opinion, you understand, and without being able to actually elect one of the clow.. I mean candidates that I've named, there is no way to prove or disprove it.

Right.

Thirdly, there is little difference in the policies of Obama vs those of his predecessor.

Then Obama deserves to be much lower in the polls than he is and only those without clue would vote for him. I agree.

Grant · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

rocket88 said:
I'm not saying he did, but replacing one unqualified man with another doesn't make either of them qualified. To hear the same crowd who crowed about how unqualified Obama was now say Eastwood is qualified...why? Because he's a Republican?

Probably because Eastwood has proven successes in his life, has run very large businesses and has also had political experience.

If the electorate are willing to bet on slogans such 'Hope and Change" the hackneyed theme of every political candidate, rather than substance, what does it matter who the candidate might be?

mbig · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

andalublue said:
What tradition is that?

mbig said:
The tradition that cleansed the Arabian Peninsula of Jews and others under various... pretexts. The 'sword verses' in general in fact. ..
Many of Mohammed's attacks/Massacres used Pretext.
Thus I signed my post with my two handles making sure abu afak was bolded....

andalublue said:
I see, so incitement is only reprehensible when a Moslem does it. Gotcha.

mbig said:
...This vid was not new and the reaction Not throughout the Arab or Muslim world. Just where some sought to make it an issue/rallying cry.
It's still early in the investigation, but speculation is it may even have been a planned attack with or without al-Qaeda's help.
That 'incitement'.

Now this:

Libya Attack Said To Be 2-Part Militant Assault
By OSAMA ALFITORY 09/13/12 11:37 AM ET
Libya Attack Said To Be 2-Part Militant Assault

BENGHAZI, Libya -- A senior security official says the attack that killed four Americans in Libya, including the U.S. ambassador, was an organized two-part operation by heavily armed militants that included a precisely timed raid on a supposedly secret safe house just as Libyan and U.S. security forces were arriving to rescue evacuated consulate staff.

Wanis al-Sharef, eastern Libya's deputy interior minister, said on Thursday the attacks were suspected to have been timed to mark the 9/11 anniversary and that the Militants USED civilians protesting an anti-Islam film as COVER for their action.

He said Ambassador Chris Stevens and another American were killed in the consulate as plainclothes Libyan security were evacuating them to the safe house. The second assault targeted the safe house, killing two Americans and wounding nearly about 30 Libyans and Americans."....."

That "pretext"

And I repeat the fact your analogy Stunk.
Youtube is Not "a crowded theater". It's Understood, Even in the Arab World, that anyone can upload anything and it does Not represent 'America'.
The attack was by thousands of Islamic/Islamist zealots and Used by even more Radical ones as a Pretext. Islam 101.

tech30528 · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

rocket88 said:
No, it really is that they don't get the kinds of freedoms we have, just like we can't comprehend not having them. We can't comprehend violence like this because it simply isn't what it's like here. It's like as a straight guy, I don't get what's appealing about penises. It's just not my experience.

I'm not saying that we owe all sorts of apologies to everyone, but they simply don't understand our freedoms because they've never had them. The violence is a result of that being the way things have always been settled there. You're not going to change thousands of years in 6 months.

Irrelevant. If they have suffered for lack of freedoms it was not at our hands. Attacking those who put them in that position may be understandable. Our perspective is as the attacked. There has been well over a decade of sympathy and diplomacy to no avail. I would even suggest that our "compassion" (or weakness) has made us more of a target.

Ever have to deal with a bully in school? I did. I was sick as a kid (tuberculosis) and so was smaller than the other kids my age. Didn't really start to catch up until about the 10th grade. When I was dealing with bullies my mother would tell me to ignore them and they would stop. She called the schools a couple of times and they couldn't stop it. What finally DID stop it was the day I had enough and took out the most aggressive of them, hospitalizing a kid nearly twice my size. That was the last time I had to deal with that. Even his friends backed down. 6 months of heavy bombing would be more than enough to fix the problem.

John.NoseTip · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

ecofarm said:
Sorry, not clicky. I'm not gonna swim through your google search. Fact is, the US operates drones at the host country's approval - thus not violating international law. And drone use does not, in and of itself, constitute a crime against humanity.

The links work when I click them. I must have a magic box. I knew Linux was good but I had no idea that links worked on it that didn't work anywhere else in the world. I think I'll send them an email about a new marketing angle for their os.

ecofarm · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

John.NoseTip said:
The links work when I click them. I must have a magic box. I knew Linux was good but I had no idea that links worked on it that didn't work anywhere else in the world. I think I'll send them an email about a new marketing angle for their os.

I meant I'm not gonna click on your links and fish for your BS interpretation myself. Put it out there, let's see what you got. This hiding behind documents and hoping that someone will understand your warped perspective, if they just look hard enough, is lame. You think people haven't seen that before? You think you just discovered previously unknown publications? Spell out the insane position you take, nice and clear, or I'm done.

rocket88 · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

tech30528 said:
Irrelevant. If they have suffered for lack of freedoms it was not at our hands. Attacking those who put them in that position may be understandable. Our perspective is as the attacked. There has been well over a decade of sympathy and diplomacy to no avail. I would even suggest that our "compassion" (or weakness) has made us more of a target.

They already did attack those who put them in that position in Libya. Sort of in Egypt. That doesn't make the societal problems from years of repression suddenly go away. In their minds, the US government OK'd this film, and therefore is in the wrong. That doesn't make them right, but it is why this is happening.

So your solution is to go to war with these governments because of the actions of some citizens? That seems like a pointless waste of resources if you ask me. It's just gonna set up another dictator in those places. That whole Gaddafi thing worked out so well for us....

You're arguing with a strawman of what you want my arguments to be. I'm not saying "compassion, compassion, let's all sing Kum Ba Ya." I'm simply stating that these are the reasons we are being attacked. I don't know what we do about it, but carpet-bombing Tripoli doesn't seem like it would solve anything here.

rocket88 · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Grant said:
Probably because Eastwood has proven successes in his life, has run very large businesses and has also had political experience.

If the electorate are willing to bet on slogans such 'Hope and Change" the hackneyed theme of every political candidate, rather than substance, what does it matter who the candidate might be?

Right, so since the electorate is so easily fooled, it's all OK if the Republicans do it too. :roll:

John.NoseTip · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

ecofarm said:
I meant I'm not gonna click on your links and fish for your BS interpretation myself. Put it out there, let's see what you got. This hiding behind documents and hoping that someone will understand your warped perspective, if they just look hard enough, is lame. You think people haven't seen that before? You think you just discovered previously unknown publications? Spell out the insane position you take, nice and clear, or I'm done.

Personal attacks very nice. Pointing out what people in other countries including ,the UN Human Rights commission, think about our drone attacks seems rational to me but to each his own.

ecofarm · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

John.NoseTip said:
Personal attacks very nice.

It's not a personal attack. I attacked your position/argument. I said nothing about you personally.

And your response is as lame as I expected.

Dittohead not! · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

MMC said:
Well.....Except for the Increased Spending, expansion of government into individual's rights and tossing aside the Constitution.....except for when needed and then tossed. I can agree with you. As there is no difference between Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs. Save one.....Who's gonna be in charge.

How is that different from the policies of the Bush Administration? Increased spending happened the last year of that regime, tossing aside the Constitution; is that a reference to the Patriot Act, or is it asset forfeiture that happened even earlier? Expansion of government into individual rights did happen under Obama when indefinite detention became law, so you do have a point there.

The new POTUS looks a lot like my avatar to me.

Grant · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

tech30528 said:
Irrelevant. If they have suffered for lack of freedoms it was not at our hands. Attacking those who put them in that position may be understandable. Our perspective is as the attacked. There has been well over a decade of sympathy and diplomacy to no avail. I would even suggest that our "compassion" (or weakness) has made us more of a target.

Ever have to deal with a bully in school? I did. I was sick as a kid (tuberculosis) and so was smaller than the other kids my age. Didn't really start to catch up until about the 10th grade. When I was dealing with bullies my mother would tell me to ignore them and they would stop. She called the schools a couple of times and they couldn't stop it. What finally DID stop it was the day I had enough and took out the most aggressive of them, hospitalizing a kid nearly twice my size. That was the last time I had to deal with that. Even his friends backed down. 6 months of heavy bombing would be more than enough to fix the problem.

Yet this is what the US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, said following the murders: “How could this happen in a country we helped liberate, in a city we helped save from destruction?”

This is willful ignorance and there is no excuse for it.

It's time the US elected some adults.

Grant · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

rocket88 said:
Right, so since the electorate is so easily fooled, it's all OK if the Republicans do it too. :roll:

Where did I say that?

Dittohead not! · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Grant said:
No, you made an ad hominem attack on the alternative candidates. You also said these candidates would be "much worse" without describing how or in what area.

You also claimed " Holy crap, we'd have been missing Obama in a week". Really? For what reason?

Right.

Then Obama deserves to be much lower in the polls than he is and only those without clue would vote for him. I agree.

Only those without a clue, or those who see that he is really not a lot different from his Republican opponent.

j-mac · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Gheeze, leave for a day and a half and I have to go through 104 pages? Good God people...Nothing else to do? heh, heh....Just kidding....

I don't know what exactly can be done as far as Lybia is concerned...This fledgling government is just getting in place, and is still very unsettled. It isn't surprising that their handle on the population, and response to this sort of thing is lacking...The real question to me is why didn't Obama have more security in place for these diplomats? Also, a question, If anyone of us were President, would we be going to sleep while our embassy was under attack?

MMC · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Dittohead not! said:
How is that different from the policies of the Bush Administration? Increased spending happened the last year of that regime, tossing aside the Constitution; is that a reference to the Patriot Act, or is it asset forfeiture that happened even earlier? Expansion of government into individual rights did happen under Obama when indefinite detention became law, so you do have a point there.

The new POTUS looks a lot like my avatar to me.

Yeah.....and who Controlled Congress the last 2 years of the Neo-Cons run? Also if you recall there was one other difference. Bush and the good ole boyz, werent Flying to Syria and running around our country talking about Assad was a reformer. Now was they?

Still all this Embassies getting hit on Obama watch.....I think changes up that Platform on his Foreign policy too. :2razz:

Das Sozialist · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Eighty Deuce said:
And you know this how ?

Had Obama:

1) Attended all his Intelligence briefings (he had missed over half, where Bush missed virtually none), would that have changed the tone, effort, and results ?

2) Not kissed Muslim ass all over such that they saw him as a weak horse, would they have still tried ?

3) Not thrown Israel under the bus, further emboldening the jihadists, would they have attempted this ?

4) Not taken out Qaddaffi, who Europe and the US were at complete peace with, and replaced him with Al Qaeda Libya (who killed the Ambassador) and the Muslim Brotherhood, does this happen ?

Now, if your argument is that the usual Obama would not have prevented this in the last few days, then I agree. But we did not get in this mess overnight. And Obama did build this mess !

That was my argument, I don't blame the President for what just happened in the last few days. I didn't agree with the Libyan war, and I keep hearing the 'we've thrown Israel under the bus' comment. We've increased our aid to them in the last few years, how did we throw them under the bus?

Eighty Deuce said:
20 Al Qaeda goons against 50 Marines ?

Nope.

20 radical fundamentalists who don't care for their own safety catching the marines off-guard?

Yep. Not all 50, mind you, but I believe it would've been more than 4 that were killed/injured.

Dittohead not! · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

MMC said:
Yeah.....and who Controlled Congress the last 2 years of the Neo-Cons run? Also if you recall there was one other difference. Bush and the good ole boyz, werent Flying to Syria and running around our country talking about Assad was a reformer. Now was they?

Still all this Embassies getting hit on Obama watch.....I think changes up that Platform on his Foreign policy too. :2razz:

If embassies getting hit on Obama's watch reflects badly on him, how does the World Trade Center coming down on Bush's watch reflect on him?

Grant · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Dittohead not! said:
Only those without a clue, or those who see that he is really not a lot different from his Republican opponent.

Not a lot different in his foreign policies? His domestic policies? His attitude toward the national debt? Taxes?

Where do you find any differences or similarities?

4Horsemen · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Has anybody caught on yet, that this is actually an act of war by the Islamic heathens that attacked that Embassy?

nobody has said that yet. amazing.

Grant · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Dittohead not! said:
If embassies getting hit on Obama's watch reflects badly on him, how does the World Trade Center coming down on Bush's watch reflect on him?

Keep in mind that 9/11 was the second attack on the WTC, the first coming during the Clinton Administration.

Do you think the terrorists began planning this attack only when George Bush became president?

MMC · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Das Sozialist said:
That was my argument, I don't blame the President for what just happened in the last few days. I didn't agree with the Libyan war, and I keep hearing the 'we've thrown Israel under the bus' comment. We've increased our aid to them in the last few years, how did we throw them under the bus?

20 radical fundamentalists who don't care for their own safety catching the marines off-guard?

Yep. Not all 50, mind you, but I believe it would've been more than 5 that were killed/injured.

What about for the lack of security? Do you blame the President for that. Considering the Libyan Embassy didnt even have bulletproof glass or any reinforced doors. At the very least both Clinton and Paneeta knew of this. Why would we put people into buildings and not strengthen their General Defenses?

Dittohead not! · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Grant said:
Keep in mind that 9/11 was the second attack on the WTC, the first coming during the Clinton Administration.

Do you think the terrorists began planning this attack only when George Bush became president?

No, obviously they hate Republicans, so they waited until one was in the White House.

Grant · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

4Horsemen said:
Has anybody caught on yet, that this is actually an act of war by the Islamic heathens that attacked that Embassy?

nobody has said that yet. amazing.

The administration is still in shock and unsure how to respond. They'll get the teleprompter up and running in no time.

ecofarm · Sep 13, 2012

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Dittohead not! said:
If embassies getting hit on Obama's watch reflects badly on him, how does the World Trade Center coming down on Bush's watch reflect on him?

You cannot be comparing the two, as if context does not exist. What do you mean?

Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

Grant

Grant

mbig

onomatopoeic

tech30528

John.NoseTip

Active member

ecofarm

global liberation

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist

John.NoseTip

Active member

ecofarm

global liberation

Dittohead not!

master political analyst

Grant

Grant

Dittohead not!

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j-mac

MMC

Das Sozialist

Dittohead not!

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Grant

4Horsemen

Grant

MMC

Dittohead not!

master political analyst

Grant

ecofarm

global liberation