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Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

ecofarm said:
I feel that putting "responsibility" (as Andy said) for the violence upon the filmmaker is BS.

No one claimed that you advocated the jailing of the filmmaker. You're thanking someone for dispelling his own strawman. Big accomplishment there.
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You mean the film maker who doesn't exist?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

sharon said:
You mean the film maker who doesn't exist?
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What does that mean? Are you inferring back to your claim that he should 1.) openly make himself a target and 2.) be deported to Israel for violated the unwritten law that we all have to be silent about the religion of Islam because otherwise other people get to kill us?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

gunner said:
NO relevance. Move along Grant.

Paul
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You claimed it was relevant to the point of your word trumping his!
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Ikari said:
Your entire position of tempering exercise of rights with mob rule is giving into fear. Fear of reprisal. Oh don't exercise your rights because someone may get made and hurt you! Like it is somehow the fault of the person exercising their rights that someone else would act irrationally.

Yeah, free ain't safe. Never has been, never will be. I'll take the slight probabilities of harm over the guarantee of government force. And I won't let terrorists force our abdication of our freedom just because some of y'all fear reprisal. Molon Labe as they say.
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Then again.....what I propose only comes at the end. When all else has failed to Validate your point. Otherwise such would be creating continual fear for the masses. As one, there is no solution and two the enemy refuses to accept anything one has to say. Thus affecting the very lives they live.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

sharon said:
You mean the film maker who doesn't exist?
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Yes, the film maker who does not exist within the context of responsibility for this violence. It doesn't matter who made the film, because they really have NOTHING to do with the riots, attack on the US embassy or murders.

It appears now that the movie itself had absolutely nothing to do with what happened in Libya. Why are you ignoring that and jumping to (irrelevant) conclusions.

The movie was released long ago. These attacks happened on 9/11 and as a result of a big AlQ guy being killed in Libya.

Forget about the movie, that excuse is over even for those who WOULD blame a movie for murders.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Sherman123 said:
It only dictates your actions and attitudes in so far that you must obey its dictates and the laws that spring from it. If your location is Sierra Nevada I expect you to respect them in that regard.
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I am not subject to US law. I live in the original Sierra Nevada.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

joko104 said:
What does that mean? Are you inferring back to your claim that he should 1.) openly make himself a target and 2.) be deported to Israel for violated the unwritten law that we all have to be silent about the religion of Islam because otherwise other people get to kill us?
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He's not an Israeli and he doesn't exist in the US.. No address, tax records, utility accounts NOTHING... Furthr.. He's not a Jew.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

MMC said:
Then again.....what I propose only comes at the end. When all else has failed to Validate your point. Otherwise such would be creating continual fear for the masses. As one, there is no solution and two the enemy refuses to accept anything one has to say. Thus affecting the very lives they live.
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They also have no power over our laws or our allowance to the exercise of rights. The best they can do is kill a few of us every once in awhile.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

sharon said:
He's not an Israeli and he doesn't exist in the US.. No address, tax records, utility accounts NOTHING... Furthr.. He's not a Jew.
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People are trying to explain to you that his background is one of the more irrelevent parts of this story I believe.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Sherman123 said:
There is significant difference in that many European countries have extensive laws that concern 'Hate Speech', for example the UK. As well as significantly more parameters and restrictions for the exercise of said speech.
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Hmm, you'll need to do a little better than one example of one rarely-used law from one European country.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

ecofarm said:
I feel that putting ANY "responsibility" (as Andy said is required in free speech) for the violence upon the filmmaker is BS.


.
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Looks like you're mincing words when it comes to free speech. Legislative responsibility or personal? Cant really detect the former, and judging by the replies in this thread the latter knows no geographic bounds.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Andalublue said:
I am not subject to US law. I live in the original Sierra Nevada.
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There is a Sierra Nevada in California, USA. Are you saying you are in Spain?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Ikari said:
They also have no power over our laws or our allowance to the exercise of rights. The best they can do is kill a few of us every once in awhile.
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Or anytime our people leave outside the US. Or afffect the trade......course I wont bring up the fact of how much money they pour into our political parties. Uhm that would be the Saud and the Sunni moreso!
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

sharon said:
He's not an Israeli and he doesn't exist in the US.. No address, tax records, utility accounts NOTHING... Furthr.. He's not a Jew.
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Who cares?

Even if someone was inclined to blame a movie for murder, it is becoming apparent that the movie really had nothing to do with the embassy in Libya. And it probably has nothing to do with the riots in Egypt - because the movie came out long ago and this occured on 9/11.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Andalublue said:
Hmm, you'll need to do a little better than one example of one rarely-used law from one European country.
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What are you talking about? They are pervasive and widely used.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/world/americas/11iht-hate.4.13645369.html?pagewanted=all
Europeans Outlaw Net Hate Speech
Free speech in Europe: mixed rules / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
Trial of Geert Wilders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...uoGoBg&usg=AFQjCNGK_ZWvftMM6E_DMn6Tvri50cJaJw

Etc, etc. Hate speech, holocaust denial laws, etc are broadly prohibited in Europe and have recently been used to crack down on politicians in Britain, France, the Netherlands, and Germany among others. Beyond hate speech, censorship laws for public broadcast, video games, film etc tend to be more institutional in Europe than in the US where things like the MPAA, EAA, etc are voluntary industry groups and hold no legal power.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

ecofarm said:
Who cares?

Even if someone was inclined to blame a movie for murder, it is becoming apparent that the movie really had nothing to do with the embassy in Libya. And it probably has nothing to do with the riots in Egypt - because the movie came out long ago and this occured on 9/11.
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I believe this to be true. The film-maker is not responsible for the actions of others. He is responsible for his own provocative and prejudiced actions however.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Andalublue said:
I believe this to be true. The film-maker is not responsible for the actions of others. He is responsible for his own provocative and prejudiced actions however.
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Personally and morally? Maybe and debatable. Legally? Definitely not.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Andalublue said:
I believe this to be true. The film-maker is not responsible for the actions of others. He is responsible for his own provocative and prejudiced actions however.
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I understand your position, and I vehemently disagree. Holding people responsible for provocative action is BS in my book. Just like a woman cannot be blamed for a rape because she dresses sexy.

Actually, your position would be "she's not responsible for the rape, but she IS responsible for being provocative". Should she get a few lashings for "her part" in the event?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

THIS??? This cannot POSSIBLY be the movie that 'triggered' such outrage....

 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

ecofarm said:
Who cares?

Even if someone was inclined to blame a movie for murder, it is becoming apparent that the movie really had nothing to do with the embassy in Libya. And it probably has nothing to do with the riots in Egypt - because the movie came out long ago and this occured on 9/11.
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The Embassy is in Tripoli.. used to live directly across the street.

The Consulate is in Benghazi. The "riot" may have been a cover for the attack on Stevens and his staff. The ambassador had traveled to Benghazi for a memorial re: 9-11.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

ecofarm said:
I understand your position, and I vehemently disagree. Holding people responsible for provocative action is BS in my book. Just like a woman cannot be blamed for a rape because she dresses sexy.

Actually, your position would be "she's not responsible for the rape, but she IS responsible for being provocative". Should she get a few lashings for "her part" in the event?
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tell that to the judge that recently told a woman she was partially to blame for being out at that place at such a late hour.

I mean if a woman dresses like a whore and is walking the streets doesn't mean she isn't responsible for bringing such actions ? please it's called being responsible and having situational awareness

now I am not saying she deserves it or its acceptable but at the same time I don't feel sorry for her. I mean do you feel sorry for a drunk driver who brings on his own actions by drinking and then driving?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Andalublue said:
I believe this to be true. The film-maker is not responsible for the actions of others. He is responsible for his own provocative and prejudiced actions however.
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If a gay guy dresses in pink and wings, and wears a cross, should he be prosecuted if a gang of phobe-thugs attack him? After all, he WAS provocative of those mindless scumbags. So we should probably charge him with some kind of a crime, right?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

SovereignElecto said:
tell that to the judge that recently told a woman she was partially to blame for being out at that place at such a late hour.
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Ok, produce him.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

SovereignElecto said:
now I am not saying she deserves it or its acceptable but at the same time I don't feel sorry for her. I mean do you feel sorry for a drunk driver who brings on his own actions by drinking and then driving?
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Holy crap! You think being raped is like driving drunk and crashing ones car?


Holy fkg crap!
 
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