• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I'd say it's defacto defense of freedom of speech. Even if someone makes something stupid or something I don't agree with, they still have the right to do so. He can say anything he wants, it is not support for some "crusade against Islam". I don't have to follow his logic either, I do not have to endorse what he endorses or to move in a way as to satisfy his desires. I am a human, I have my own brain, I can make up my own mind. So one theists is insulting another theist. Welcome to Human History. Doesn't mean we restrict one's ability to do it, what we restrict is one's ability to react violently to it.

No matter what you say here, the film maker is not in the wrong in this case. Those in the wrong are the ones who made the choice to react violently.

I disagree fully.

When a man walks into a crowded theatre and says FIRE and the reaction is panic and people die and yet there is no fire.. is he not guilty of manslaughter at least? Now he could have gone into an empty theatre and shouted FIRE .. that is his right under freedom of speech and the reaction does not cause death and panic.. but he choose.. yes choose to walk into a crowded theatre and shout FIRE which in turn caused panic and deaths. He knew what was doing and he is responsible for his actions.

One of the cornerstone of our societies today, and especially of the right wing political theory.. is personal responsibility. You are responsible for your life, you are responsible for your actions.. and you are responsible for your words. If ANY of those responsibilities cause harm to others.. then YOU are responsible either in part or in whole for those injuries.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Why do we continue to leave our representatives in harms way? Is there any diplomatic or practical reason an ambassador should need to be in their assigned country on an ongoing basis? Especially when that country is unstable or prone to outbreaks of violence.

Americans (and probably a few Libyans) who did nothing wrong are dead because a few assholes decided to be intentionally insulting, and an irrational mob decided any death would avenge the insult.

Embassy services include issues Americans in that country may have to deal with and varous nuts and bolts dealing with the other country.

It USED to be considered an attack against the country itself to attack an Embassy. However, to Obama, attacking our embassy and killing those there was really just a political protest statement.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

which is why they need to be allowed to elect these idiots to power, and suffer the consequences accordingly. only when you allow someone to fail can they learn.

This is exactly the course.

It boggles my mind how supposed intelligent people in the West are too quickly willing to abandon all paths of freedom and liberty at the slightest bit of violence. Their reaction to reach back and worship dictators and all the things that created this religious mess is pathetic. But what should we expect from Europeans who throw World War Parties and genocides and preach peace/humanity....and Americans who bide their time during an economic crisis figuring out if pizza is a vegetable while channel surfing and wondering if "America has Talent?"
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Evidently, while the Embassy staff were being killed, Bacile decided to hide rather than continue to "express" his relgious convictions.

WTF should he have done ?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Difference is.. that is factual. Ron Hubbard was a subpar science fiction writer and a criminal who avoided jail time by sitting on a boat in international waters until the US accepted his writings as "religion". Calling Mohammed a homosexual paedophile is so far from factual, that it is insulting.

Well that's really only because Scientology is retarded as is all of their practitioners, so I don't need to be far from factual to be insulting.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I disagree fully.

When a man walks into a crowded theatre and says FIRE and the reaction is panic and people die and yet there is no fire.. is he not guilty of manslaughter at least? Now he could have gone into an empty theatre and shouted FIRE .. that is his right under freedom of speech and the reaction does not cause death and panic.. but he choose.. yes choose to walk into a crowded theatre and shout FIRE which in turn caused panic and deaths. He knew what was doing and he is responsible for his actions.

One of the cornerstone of our societies today, and especially of the right wing political theory.. is personal responsibility. You are responsible for your life, you are responsible for your actions.. and you are responsible for your words. If ANY of those responsibilities cause harm to others.. then YOU are responsible either in part or in whole for those injuries.

Great argument for outlawing free speech.

HEY, why not start on THIS forum! Every time anyone posts anything against Christianity, you give 'em hell.

Help me out. Give me a couple of links where you have criticized anyone on the forum for anti-Christianity messages. Or just admit you are a total hypocrite, bigoted against Christians, and a political correctness hack defending ignorant Muslims who murder on command of their religious dominators.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Have you ever considered risperdal? It might be just the solution to this problem you have brought to our attention.

OUR attention????

You mean you cannot think for yourself and require a tribal security blanket?

interesting way to exist in a fascist US tyrannical Corpocracy
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

What movie was it?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Great argument for outlawing free speech.

HEY, why not start on THIS forum! Every time anyone posts anything against Christianity, you give 'em hell.

Help me out. Give me a couple of links where you have criticized anyone on the forum for anti-Christianity messages. Or just admit you are a total hypocrite, bigoted against Christians, and a political correctness hack defending ignorant Muslims who murder on command of their religious dominators.

Free speech with no accountability.. sort of like carrying a gun and having no accountability.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I disagree fully.

When a man walks into a crowded theatre and says FIRE and the reaction is panic and people die and yet there is no fire.. is he not guilty of manslaughter at least? Now he could have gone into an empty theatre and shouted FIRE .. that is his right under freedom of speech and the reaction does not cause death and panic.. but he choose.. yes choose to walk into a crowded theatre and shout FIRE which in turn caused panic and deaths. He knew what was doing and he is responsible for his actions.

One of the cornerstone of our societies today, and especially of the right wing political theory.. is personal responsibility. You are responsible for your life, you are responsible for your actions.. and you are responsible for your words. If ANY of those responsibilities cause harm to others.. then YOU are responsible either in part or in whole for those injuries.

Your analogy is insanity. People stampeding out of a theater in whch they believe there is an immediate threat to their safety is a natural reaction to a perceived immediate threat.

People deciding to murder because they do not agree with what someone else said is non-comparative beyond belief.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I disagree fully.

When a man walks into a crowded theatre and says FIRE and the reaction is panic and people die and yet there is no fire.. is he not guilty of manslaughter at least?

There's a time scale. If you yell fire in a crowded theater, you immediately cause panic. There is reasonable cause to believe your life is in danger, and thus panic and escape are expected. Fight or flight is immediate response and if your life is in trouble, you must react immediately. If you watch a movie and then decide that you're going to burn something down because of it, you are not making a panicked decision because you think your life is on the line. You have time to reason it out and if you choose not to, then that is a choice you make. But the external pressure to your life isn't there and ultimately you go off and plan an attack...there's plenty of time to realize what it is that you're doing. The film maker is not on the line because violent reaction to a movie is not a rational response. Panicking in a fire is a rational response.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Why isn't this just a criminal act? Criminals murdered 4 people and people are talking about religious wars. WTF! I'm actually old enough to remember a group of black guys pulling a white trucker out of his vehicle and beating the ever loving hell out of him then celebrating what they had done. It was a horrific act but I nor most people wanted to declare a race war because of what a handful of criminals had done. There will always be criminals who want holy wars, race wars etc... but If governments keep responding in that kind of tribal mindset things will never improve.

Required Reading For The World
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Well, I didn't know he had made time for Letterman instead. I stand corrected.

I think it's safe to say that after four years no one can ever accept anything Barrack Hussein Obama says at face value.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me, and if the American electorate allows themselves to be fooled yet again then they will have entered a phase of severe dysfunctionality.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I disagree fully.

When a man walks into a crowded theatre and says FIRE and the reaction is panic and people die and yet there is no fire.. is he not guilty of manslaughter at least? Now he could have gone into an empty theatre and shouted FIRE .. that is his right under freedom of speech and the reaction does not cause death and panic.. but he choose.. yes choose to walk into a crowded theatre and shout FIRE which in turn caused panic and deaths. He knew what was doing and he is responsible for his actions.

One of the cornerstone of our societies today, and especially of the right wing political theory.. is personal responsibility. You are responsible for your life, you are responsible for your actions.. and you are responsible for your words. If ANY of those responsibilities cause harm to others.. then YOU are responsible either in part or in whole for those injuries.

So what you are saying is that Michael Moore's films should be outlawed because they might inflame someone to violence. Please say so directly.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I think it's safe to say that after four years no one can ever accept anything Barrack Hussein Obama says at face value.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me, and if the American electorate allows themselves to be fooled yet again then they will have entered a phase of severe dysfunctionality.

What exactly do you mean? How have you been "fooled"?

A film maker deiberately sets off a firestorm to express his religious beliefs and goes into hiding while Americans are being killed..

And you want to do a petty routine on Obama?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I disagree fully.

When a man walks into a crowded theatre and says FIRE and the reaction is panic and people die and yet there is no fire.. is he not guilty of manslaughter at least? Now he could have gone into an empty theatre and shouted FIRE .. that is his right under freedom of speech and the reaction does not cause death and panic.. but he choose.. yes choose to walk into a crowded theatre and shout FIRE which in turn caused panic and deaths. He knew what was doing and he is responsible for his actions.

One of the cornerstone of our societies today, and especially of the right wing political theory.. is personal responsibility. You are responsible for your life, you are responsible for your actions.. and you are responsible for your words. If ANY of those responsibilities cause harm to others.. then YOU are responsible either in part or in whole for those injuries.

The brunt of the responsibility falls on the shoulders of the Libyan government. They failed to protect those in their country and to maintain public safety. Us law does not apply here. There is no crowded theater. There is no US constitutional free speech argument there is only is what should Libya have done differently to maintain order and public safety.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

And you want to do a petty routine on Obama?

You seem to want to do a petty routine on the film maker. The people at fault, the people 100% at fault, are those who decided to act aggressively and take violent actions.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I call bull**** on your bull****.

Unless someone can point to something in the film that's explicitly illegal, I'm going to go ahead and place 100% of the blame on the idiots who perpetrated the murder.

In fact, even if you can identify something illegal in the film, I'm still going to place 100% of the blame on the people who stormed an embassy and killed an ambassador; they had nothing to do with the movie.

Absolutely.
This was a violent criminal act, and the people responsible are the violent criminals who carried out the attack, not someone who made a movie.

At least the US and Libya are both on the same side in condemning the attack and swearing to bring the perpetrators to justice.

Countdown until this becomes a presidential campaign issue, 9, 8, 7 .....
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

So you are seriously claiming that the people behind this movie which states Mohammed as a homosexual paedophile lying mass murderer were anywhere near rational when they one day woke up and said.. Hey lets make such a movie, it could be fun!? Screw the facts! That is like saying Adolf Hitler was rational when wrote Mien Kampf which did not exactly portray Jews in a positive light...

You hardly know "the facts" about Mohammed, but who cares anyway? The point is much larger than him.

And it is nothing like Mein Kamph. You can read it or make a movie of it and no Jews are going to kill anyone if you do.

And do you know why? Jews are a civilized people.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

What exactly do you mean? How have you been "fooled"?

A film maker deiberately sets off a firestorm to express his religious beliefs and goes into hiding while Americans are being killed..

And you want to do a petty routine on Obama?

Why is it that you want anyone you don't like to be exposed to assasination by hate mongers?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

OUR attention????

You mean you cannot think for yourself and require a tribal security blanket?

interesting way to exist in a fascist US tyrannical Corpocracy


If you need any suggestions as to which razor to purchase when the time comes you have use for such things, I would be happy to give some advice.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

While I agree that those who did all this mess should be punished.... those that started the whole mess should also.... shouting fire in a packed theatre and then starting the fire is illegal.

You can't fix stupid. Therefore, the folks that made the film can't be held responsible.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

You seem to want to do a petty routine on the film maker. The people at fault, the people 100% at fault, are those who decided to act aggressively and take violent actions.

He should go home and exercise his "freedom of speech" in Israel.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Before I was mad. Now I'm pissed.






Good on the Libyan government for not trying to either quietly ignore or appease these thugs. Looking at you, Egypt.

As with Cairo, I'm wondering why our people didn't return fire. I guess--as it's been pointed out--that they didn't...the violence may have excalated.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

The brunt of the responsibility falls on the shoulders of the Libyan government. They failed to protect those in their country and to maintain public safety. Us law does not apply here. There is no crowded theater. There is no US constitutional free speech argument there is only is what should Libya have done differently to maintain order and public safety.

... and what the governmental authorities did when they learned the protest and then battle was going on. I am waiting to hear the body count of Libyan law enforcement and military in trying to defend the embassy. If it is zero, I count it as an act of war by the Libyan government against the USA.
 
Back
Top Bottom