• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Ikari said:
It could be, depending on belief. All theists are mostly crazy to varying degrees, I'm not going to tread carefully because theists may get their feelings hurt. Hurt feelings does not excuse violent response, and me hurting someone's feelings in no way shape or form makes me responsible for their irrational response.
Click to expand...

You aren't going to "tread carefully"

The Israeli film maker said the same thing..
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Ikari said:
It could be, depending on belief. All theists are mostly crazy to varying degrees, I'm not going to tread carefully because theists may get their feelings hurt. Hurt feelings does not excuse violent response, and me hurting someone's feelings in no way shape or form makes me responsible for their irrational response.
Click to expand...

Actually it does if your actions were deliberate and intended to gain such a response. But enough is enough, this whole thread is full of emotional irrational comments with very few facts. I would not be surprised if the RPG attack was actually a planned Al Q attack and not a reaction to the movie.

End of the day, both sides are at fault in one way or another.. radicals rule the day yet again it seems and that is our biggest problem on this planet.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I wonder what proportion of the US population realises what is enslaving them?

fascism_is_the_american_dream.jpg
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Grant said:
How is making a movie not rational? People are making movies, writing books, making speeches and contributing to political debates every hour of the day. That's the way of western civilization.

Has any criticism of islam become a Holy War to you as well? Is the subject of islam, unless it is positive, is now verboten?
Click to expand...

Have you seen the film.. Mohammed is portrayed as a pedophile, rapist, thief.. the worst .. It was designed to get the reaction that it got.

The director/producer blames embassy security.. He claims he is expressing his religious views and helping his country.. He has also gone into hiding.. So he is also a coward concerning his "beliefs".
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

sharon said:
You aren't going to "tread carefully"

The Israeli film maker said the same thing..
Click to expand...

Why should he have to say differently? You want to curtail freedom because of fear over how the irrational will respond? If we kowtow to stupid and irrational people, we'll never be free.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Grant said:
How is making a movie not rational? People are making movies, writing books, making speeches and contributing to political debates every hour of the day. That's the way of western civilization.

Has any criticism of islam become a Holy War to you as well? Is the subject of islam, unless it is positive, is now verboten?
Click to expand...

Making a movie is rational.. but making this movie is not. It is not rational what so ever to make a movie who's sole purpose is to provoke and piss off 1 billion people and cause chaos and death. The maker of this movie, knew perfectly well that making Mohammed look like a homosexual paedophile mass murderer would cause a reaction among the faithful.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

PeteEU said:
The reaction of fanatics is never rational. The reaction of the American-Israeli to Islam is not rational.. him making this movie is not rational.. people funding such a movie is not rational. People reacting in such a way is not rational.. but we are talking about religion and fanatics, so anything they do is NOT RATIONAL! regardless of who we are talking about. Is insulting 1 billion peoples beliefs rational?
Click to expand...

That sincerely depends on the circumstances and belief in question.

Not all beliefs are rational or moral or acceptable in a larger society.

Distorting beliefs and being intentionally antagonistic? Maybe not so much. I haven't seen the video, but based on comments here, these "film makers" went way too far. Shame on them.

But the only people who committed crimes are the people who torched, bombed, and murdered.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

PeteEU said:
The reaction of fanatics is never rational. The reaction of the American-Israeli to Islam is not rational.. him making this movie is not rational.. people funding such a movie is not rational. People reacting in such a way is not rational.. but we are talking about religion and fanatics, so anything they do is NOT RATIONAL! regardless of who we are talking about. Is insulting 1 billion peoples beliefs rational?
Click to expand...

Billions of people who listen to Mullahs and Clerics preach venom towards the West. You may wish to believe that a mere handful of Muslims are the problem, but they come from a pool of tens of millions that agree with the extreme words of their religious leaders. Muslims in the Middle East and in Europe have proven that this "mere handful" have plenty of civilizational support.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

PeteEU said:
Actually it does if your actions were deliberate and intended to gain such a response. But enough is enough, this whole thread is full of emotional irrational comments with very few facts. I would not be surprised if the RPG attack was actually a planned Al Q attack and not a reaction to the movie.

End of the day, both sides are at fault in one way or another.. radicals rule the day yet again it seems and that is our biggest problem on this planet.
Click to expand...

Kindly set forth your theories of liability with citation.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

PeteEU said:
The maker of this movie, knew perfectly well that making Mohammed look like a homosexual paedophile mass murderer would cause a reaction among the faithful.
Click to expand...

So? I could make a movie portraying Ron Hubbard as a subpar science fiction writer who wanted to get rich through creating a religion. And thus he created one of the most illogical, aggressive, idiotic "religions" ever and anyone who is a scientologist is either a full on retard or is in on the scam. If the Scientologists then go out and start fighting or blowing things up, that's on them. In fact they're only proving my point by doing so. But I would be in no way, shape or form responsible for the actions they took.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

MSgt said:
Billions of people who listen to Mullahs and Clerics preach venom towards the West. You may wish to believe that a mere handful of Muslims are the problem, but they come from a pool of tens of millions that agree with the extreme words of their religious leaders. Muslims in the Middle East and in Europe have proven that this "mere handful" have plenty of civilizational support.
Click to expand...

which is why they need to be allowed to elect these idiots to power, and suffer the consequences accordingly. only when you allow someone to fail can they learn.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

MSgt said:
Typical Europan response to a fear that Americans don't want to be there anymore.......

America took down the Spanish Empire during our time of isolationalism.

America surpassed the british Empire as the number one economy on earth in the 1890s during our time of isolationalism.

America ventured out to deal with European children during World War I to prevent the allies from losing and then went right back into isolationalism after proving to be the most powerful nation on earth.

We did all this through our isolationalism - political, social, and economic isolationalism.



But Europeans wouldn't allow an isolated America would they? After proving to emerge out of our isolationalism to deal with more European children as the most powerful nation in history, we had to stay in your wrecked world. Before long we were dealing with more European children during the Cold War. Of course, in the 1990s we were still dealing with European children and their knack for genocide on the Europen continent with the former Yugoslavia.

So you see.....we became great through our isolationalism when we didn't have to continually react to European instigated disasters at the expense of American lives. Underneath the anti-American propaganda preached at European institutions and universities, Europeans aren't dumb. They know that an isolated America means a world in European hands and that this means disaster is always around the corner. You are deadly to yourselves and need a daddy protectorate.

Make no mistake.....we have proved that we can isolate and become great while the rest of you spiral straight to hell. The truth is that none of you is worth our blood. You never were. We have just been stuck with putting out your fires that always threaten to consume us all. Your continued self-designed path to hell always threatens to drag the rest of us with you.

But today our problem is less European and more Middle Eastern. But lets not pretend anymore. Our problem is Muslim. We protect their dictators and we are hated and murdered by Muslims for it. We get rid of their dictators and support their revolutions and we are hated and murdered for it. A book gets burned and Americans are murdered for it. And all Europeans can do is talk about how America deserves it. Never mind that we didn't start two World Wars, a Cold War and wreck the world through brutal soul killing colonialism. We merely inherited your overwhelming messes while making an extreme few along the way. But by all means..."America deserves it."

Hillary Clinton just spoke and told the world that for Americans, the fact this occurred on September 11, it is just further proof that our mission to bring a better world isn't finished. She refrained from more truth. September 11 has become a date for Muslims to celebrate Islam.
Click to expand...

Too many will support crazies of every sort, no matter their radical their agendas or how deep their disregard for human life or rights, before they'll support either Americans or Jews.

Americans and Jews are their true enemies.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Ikari said:
Why should he have to say differently? You want to curtail freedom because of fear over how the irrational will respond? If we kowtow to stupid and irrational people, we'll never be free.
Click to expand...

In a way I agree, but we have to be rational here. Saying it is "freedom of speech" and defacto defending this POS movie will only hurt our cause in creating freedom and freedom of speech in this region. The radicals in those societies will use it as an excuse (as we have seen) to drive even a bigger shaft between us and them. And that is what exactly the radical American-Israeli maker had in mind.. he wants a war with Islam. By supporting his right to "freedom of speech", then we also support his crusade against Islam.. is that what you want?

We in the west should not bow to any radical. We should condemn the attacks and demand justice for the dead. But we should also condemn whole heartedly the movie and its makers and with in the law attempt to punish them for what they have done. No radical movement or persons should get away with this.. regardless of who it is.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Klown said:
I wonder what proportion of the US population realises what is enslaving them?

View attachment 67134250
Click to expand...

Have you ever considered risperdal? It might be just the solution to this problem you have brought to our attention.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Ikari said:
So? I could make a movie portraying Ron Hubbard as a subpar science fiction writer who wanted to get rich through creating a religion. And thus he created one of the most illogical, aggressive, idiotic "religions" ever and anyone who is a scientologist is either a full on retard or is in on the scam. If the Scientologists then go out and start fighting or blowing things up, that's on them. In fact they're only proving my point by doing so. But I would be in no way, shape or form responsible for the actions they took.
Click to expand...

Difference is.. that is factual. Ron Hubbard was a subpar science fiction writer and a criminal who avoided jail time by sitting on a boat in international waters until the US accepted his writings as "religion". Calling Mohammed a homosexual paedophile is so far from factual, that it is insulting.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

PeteEU said:
Making a movie is rational.. but making this movie is not. It is not rational what so ever to make a movie who's sole purpose is to provoke and piss off 1 billion people and cause chaos and death. The maker of this movie, knew perfectly well that making Mohammed look like a homosexual paedophile mass murderer would cause a reaction among the faithful.
Click to expand...

Thankfully, we don't have you to decide which movies, books, articles and opinions are rational or not. You're allowed to express your opinions openly, despite their clear irrationality, and that is accepted. The same should hold true for others.

And of course there is some evidence that Mohammed did engage in homosexuality, pedophilia and mass murderer. We can discuss history despots openly and Mohammed should be no exception, no matter what the islamists might believe.
 
Last edited:
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

PeteEU said:
In a way I agree, but we have to be rational here. Saying it is "freedom of speech" and defacto defending this POS movie will only hurt our cause in creating freedom and freedom of speech in this region.
Click to expand...

I'd say it's defacto defense of freedom of speech. Even if someone makes something stupid or something I don't agree with, they still have the right to do so. He can say anything he wants, it is not support for some "crusade against Islam". I don't have to follow his logic either, I do not have to endorse what he endorses or to move in a way as to satisfy his desires. I am a human, I have my own brain, I can make up my own mind. So one theists is insulting another theist. Welcome to Human History. Doesn't mean we restrict one's ability to do it, what we restrict is one's ability to react violently to it.

No matter what you say here, the film maker is not in the wrong in this case. Those in the wrong are the ones who made the choice to react violently.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

cpwill said:
yet he did apparently have free room in his schedule for David Letterman....
Click to expand...

Eighty Deuce said:
That's called a snub. When David Letterman is more important that Netanyahu ... its a SNUB !

Obama Announces Letterman Appearance on Day He Snubbed Netanyahu
Click to expand...

Grant said:
"A scheduling problem"??? The Middle East is the most volatile area of the world right now and Barrack Obama can't see the leader of the only democracy there, and which is under real threat, because of a "scheduling problem"??

Did he happen to mention what he was doing that was more important?
Click to expand...


Well, I didn't know he had made time for Letterman instead. I stand corrected.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Grant said:
Americans and Jews are their true enemies.
Click to expand...

But everybody knows you don't earn your street cred unless you hate Jews, man! oopsie - -i didn't mean to say "Jews." Really, I didn't. I meant to say "Israelis". It's o.k. to vent your spleen with all the typical cr@p as long as you substitute "Israeli" for "Jew" as we all know so well.

Now, let's get on with the blame game, shall we? We all know that Jews ..... oopsie again, I meant "Israelis" are put on this Earth as a scapegoat for all that ails us socially and psychologically, so let's make sure that when we try to shift the responsibility from the murderer to the scapegoat, we keep mentioning that he is an "Israeli filmmaker". That will clue people in to the ethnicity we have chosen to blame instead of the one we defend.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

PeteEU said:
Actually it does if your actions were deliberate and intended to gain such a response. But enough is enough, this whole thread is full of emotional irrational comments with very few facts. I would not be surprised if the RPG attack was actually a planned Al Q attack and not a reaction to the movie.

End of the day, both sides are at fault in one way or another.. radicals rule the day yet again it seems and that is our biggest problem on this planet.
Click to expand...

"Both sides are at fault"??

How so?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

The film is offensive to the muslims. The director of the film has gone into hiding and he remains defiant. He describes islam as 'a cancer'. He said he had intended his film to be a provocative political statement condemning the religion.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

longview said:
So are attacks like this the flowers we can expect from the Arab Spring?
Click to expand...

Did you seriously not realize that perfection and utopia wouldn't emerge immediately after freeing themselves from decades long dictators? Don't be foolish.


It was never going to be a walk in the park. Decades of being told what to do, without healthy political expression or opposition, did have repercussions. Smoe of which was religious radicalism. In time of trouble all men eventually turn to God for guidance. And when times are really bad, men will do anything to find salvation. Some rob convenient stores to put mil on their tables. Some listen intently to the religious leader preaching that life in this life isn't worth living, but that they can do certain things to ensure success in the next life. This radicalism was never going to simply dissapear just because they finally got rid of the dictator that oppressed them. They learned to hate all manner of things along their religious trek, to include even their own religion's mercy and core instructions for peace. The handful of militant extremists merely represent the millions of radicals that either don't have the nerve to act on their beliefs or simply don't truly feel the hatred they have been indoctrinated to all their lives.

But blood was always going to spill. Even here in the US where politicial expression and freedom rules supreme, we manage to produe morons willing to drink suicidal Kool-Aid and worship comets. The diffreence is that our religious nuts are usualy only a danger to themselves. Maybe a healthier Middle East, beyond the colonial and dictator eras, will produce the same type of moron in time.

You ever shake up a soda can? Were you shocked when you popped the tab and it blew up? The Arab Spring popped the tab.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Grant said:
Thankfully, we don't have you to decide which movies, books, articles and opinions are rational or not. You're allowed to express your opinions openly, despite their clear irrationality, and that is accepted. The same should hold true for others.
Click to expand...

So you are seriously claiming that the people behind this movie which states Mohammed as a homosexual paedophile lying mass murderer were anywhere near rational when they one day woke up and said.. Hey lets make such a movie, it could be fun!? Screw the facts! That is like saying Adolf Hitler was rational when wrote Mien Kampf which did not exactly portray Jews in a positive light...
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

RDS said:
The film is offensive to the muslims. The director of the film has gone into hiding and he remains defiant. He describes islam as 'a cancer'. He said he had intended his film to be a provocative political statement condemning the religion.
Click to expand...

Evidently, while the Embassy staff were being killed, Bacile decided to hide rather than continue to "express" his relgious convictions.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

PeteEU said:
In a way I agree, but we have to be rational here. Saying it is "freedom of speech" and defacto defending this POS movie will only hurt our cause in creating freedom and freedom of speech in this region. The radicals in those societies will use it as an excuse (as we have seen) to drive even a bigger shaft between us and them. And that is what exactly the radical American-Israeli maker had in mind.. he wants a war with Islam. By supporting his right to "freedom of speech", then we also support his crusade against Islam.. is that what you want?

We in the west should not bow to any radical. We should condemn the attacks and demand justice for the dead. But we should also condemn whole heartedly the movie and its makers and with in the law attempt to punish them for what they have done. No radical movement or persons should get away with this.. regardless of who it is.
Click to expand...

Then let the radical Islamists make a movie condemning Israel. Or mocking Jesus Christ.

See the difference ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom