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Thread: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

  1. #541
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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Grant, remember, you're the 'keyboard warrior' I have actually been their on more than one occasion.

    Paul
    You have been where?

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Giving into fear will leave us without our Republic.
    Who said anything about giving into fear.....Since coming from Chicago, obviously I would only be talking about giving those that want to walk down that path of unrighteousness. That which they fear the most!

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The "blame/fault the filmmaker" routine expressed herein
    I refer you to Post 415, again.
    is the basis of Europe's "blame words" free speech restrictions.
    Which is what exactly? Can you be specific as to what restrictions on free speech are being imposed across Europe?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    But you see, that is not liberalism. Liberalism is about freedom and the value of the individual, and is not about religion, except in that we have the freedom to worship, or not, whatever we wish, or not. What we were seeing at the convention was a bunch of malcontents who are still rebelling against their parents, essentially. Listen, I am not religious in a traditional manner at all, but I understand why many people are, and it doesn't bother me in the least for people to express it, and even if I were atheistic, I would not demand that others avoid any mention of God in a gathering such as political conventions. To me, it just reeks of insecurity and juvenile defiance.

    A good number of people who self-identify as liberals, have no real concept of what they are claiming to be. Americans have managed to turn what used to be a wonderful philosophy into just another flavor of authoritarianism. There are few actual liberals even left any more.
    VERY WELL PUT!

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Well, your constitution isn't necessarily a document I feel needs to dictate my actions or attitudes.
    It only dictates your actions and attitudes in so far that you must obey its dictates and the laws that spring from it. If your location is Sierra Nevada I expect you to respect them in that regard.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Y'see, this is where sweeping generalisations and racial stereotyping can be identified on both sides of a dispute. You rightly abhor the lumping together of all Jews, making them responsible en masse for the actions of the Israeli state, and yet are quite happy to label all Europeans as having, "perfected their cleansings and genocides..." Three members of my family lost their lives fighting Nazism, and the total number of Europeans who lost their lives actively fighting against fascism outnumbers the number of Americans who died by about 50 to 1.
    Perhaps that's because WWI and WWII were both European wars caused and elevated by Europeans.

    I expect there were more American lives lost in the American civil war on American soil as well.

    If you're trying to make the claim that Europeans made greater sacrifices than Americans did fighting a war of European creation on European soil then you probably have a point, though non-Europeans might wonder at the sense behind it.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Well, to be fair to Ben, this is the first post in which free speech legislation has been mentioned. You seemed to be taking issue with my attitudes to free speech specifically. As far as I am aware of it, I have issue with US legislation on free speech, but nor am I aware of any great difference between the degree of free speech permitted in the European countries I am familiar with (UK, France, Spain, Ireland, Germany, NL) and that permitted in the US.
    There is significant difference in that many European countries have extensive laws that concern 'Hate Speech', for example the UK. As well as significantly more parameters and restrictions for the exercise of said speech.

  8. #548
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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Who said anything about giving into fear.....Since coming from Chicago, obviously I would only be talking about giving those that want to walk down that path of unrighteousness. That which they fear the most!
    Your entire position of tempering exercise of rights with mob rule is giving into fear. Fear of reprisal. Oh don't exercise your rights because someone may get made and hurt you! Like it is somehow the fault of the person exercising their rights that someone else would act irrationally.

    Yeah, free ain't safe. Never has been, never will be. I'll take the slight probabilities of harm over the guarantee of government force. And I won't let terrorists force our abdication of our freedom just because some of y'all fear reprisal. Molon Labe as they say.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #549
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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Which Andy didnt do in his original contribution to the discussion. He blamed the proximal actors and criticized the ****ty movie.
    I feel that putting ANY "responsibility" (as Andy said is required in free speech) for the violence upon the filmmaker is BS.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    That's because I didn't advocate any such thing, nor would I. Thanks Ben.
    No one claimed that you advocated the jailing of the filmmaker. You're thanking someone for dispelling his own strawman. Big accomplishment there.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 09-12-12 at 05:11 PM.

  10. #550
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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You have been where?
    NO relevance. Move along Grant.

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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