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Thread: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Try to catch up, I'm pointing out the difference between Euro and US free speech legislation and the apologist attitude that is behind the Euro-wussy version of free speech. This has direct bearing on the "but you knew crazy terrorists would get angry" apologism rampant in this thread.
    I don't follow a debate between "locations" and "leans", just posters. I didnīt see Andy advocating jailing of the filmmaker for his expression.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    When roughly half the delgates at the National Convention express their desire to take "God" out of the platform (as it had been deliberately removed), and not recognize Jerusalem ...........

    .......... its a Democrat thing. ........
    But you see, that is not liberalism. Liberalism is about freedom and the value of the individual, and is not about religion, except in that we have the freedom to worship, or not, whatever we wish, or not. What we were seeing at the convention was a bunch of malcontents who are still rebelling against their parents, essentially. Listen, I am not religious in a traditional manner at all, but I understand why many people are, and it doesn't bother me in the least for people to express it, and even if I were atheistic, I would not demand that others avoid any mention of God in a gathering such as political conventions. To me, it just reeks of insecurity and juvenile defiance.

    A good number of people who self-identify as liberals, have no real concept of what they are claiming to be. Americans have managed to turn what used to be a wonderful philosophy into just another flavor of authoritarianism. There are few actual liberals even left any more.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Grant, remember, you're the 'keyboard warrior' I have actually been their on more than one occasion.

    Paul
    Well heck then close this thread down and call it game over since you're the expert on it all since you where there on one or more occasion... rolls eyes

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    [QUOTE=Sherman123;1060901375]
    While accepting that I would point out the functional reasons for opposing any limitations like you describe on free speech is that such limitations and determinations are subjective. Once you have established the precedent it makes it easier to enact more restrictions in the name of societal utility. Thus why absolute prohibitions and rights are useful, they prevent or blunt such creeping policies
    .

    I agree. Hence it can be a double edged sword, and society need rely on a vigorous parliamentary and judicial system to ensure the infringement is in the most minuscule of examples. Hopefully subjectivity anchored in such a rigorous system we witness only temporal actions.

    Many Americans would probably point to your CCTV system and police surveillance rights for example with shuddering horror.
    As do many in the UK. Considering, on the whole, their ineffectiveness

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Do you think Cicero thought the same with the Republic.....before Julius Ceasar removed his head from his shoulders?
    Giving into fear will leave us without our Republic.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    I don't follow a commentary between locations and leans, just posters. I didnīt see Andy advocating jailing of the filmmaker for his expression.
    You obviously are not getting my point. The "blame/fault the filmmaker" routine expressed herein is the basis of Europe's "blame words" free speech restrictions.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignElecto View Post
    Well heck then close this thread down and call it game over since you're the expert on it all since you where there on one or more occasion... rolls eyes
    As a 'newbie' you would not be privy to Grants posting style, so your misguided loyalty can be forgiven.

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Try to catch up, I'm pointing out the difference between Euro and US free speech legislation and the apologist attitude that is behind the Euro-wussy version of free speech. This has direct bearing on the "but you knew crazy terrorists would get angry" apologism rampant in this thread.
    Well, to be fair to Ben, this is the first post in which free speech legislation has been mentioned. You seemed to be taking issue with my attitudes to free speech specifically. As far as I am aware of it, I have issue with US legislation on free speech, but nor am I aware of any great difference between the degree of free speech permitted in the European countries I am familiar with (UK, France, Spain, Ireland, Germany, NL) and that permitted in the US.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You obviously are not getting my point. The "blame/fault the filmmaker" routine expressed herein is the basis of Europe's "blame words" free speech laws.
    Which Andy didnt do in his original contribution to the discussion. He blamed the proximal actors and criticized the ****ty movie.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    I didnīt see Andy advocating jailing of the filmmaker for his expression.
    That's because I didn't advocate any such thing, nor would I. Thanks Ben.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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