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Thread: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Think your worst thoughts. Never be surprised how low a terrorist will stoop.

    Paul

    Well when they talk about Americans being the Great Satan.....Ya know what they Say, Rights. When In ROME!!!!!

    Ive never confused the message. Hatred Americans, Jews, Christians. Not necessarily in that order for the Day. The Rhetoric hasnt changed in 45 yrs or so.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    I fully appreciate how dear Americans view free speech. It is something that has been made crystal clear to me on this board. That said, I'm more for the 'greater good'. No different to my total opposition to the fanatics that (although an extreme minority) attempted to protest Military home coming parades, in the UK. I fully agree it serves no one, and is simply promulgating hatred and is not conducive with the principles of a Western society. I have NO issue with banning such virile hate messages.

    Paul
    While accepting that I would point out the functional reasons for opposing any limitations like you describe on free speech is that such limitations and determinations are subjective. Once you have established the precedent it makes it easier to enact more restrictions in the name of societal utility. Thus why absolute prohibitions and rights are useful, they prevent or blunt such creeping policies. Many Americans would probably point to your CCTV system and police surveillance rights for example with shuddering horror.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Please refer to your constitution. You clearly dont understand it. There is no right protecting free speech from criticism, which is what andy is doing.

    EDIT - not free speech the concept, people saying things and thus being criticised.

    Try to catch up, I'm pointing out the difference between Euro and US free speech legislation and the apologist attitude that is behind the Euro-wussy version of free speech. This has direct bearing on the "but you knew crazy terrorists would get angry" apologism rampant in this thread.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So your opinion on freedom is that it should be tempered by mob rule.
    Sometimes.....only a hotter fire can be used to fight another fire.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Just be sure never to provoke them, Paul, and you'll be okay,.
    Grant, remember, you're the 'keyboard warrior' I have actually been their on more than one occasion.

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Jews, it would seem, are the ones not to get away with anything. How dare they be victims of Europe and now defend themselves against regional neighboring Muslims. The natural deflection amongst those who go out of there way to scrutinize Israel's policies are simply using it to display a disgust for Jews without saying it. Without Isreal, many of you would be more honest about what you really criticize. Most Americans on this board just don't let you get away with it. I mean..you are the continent that perfected their cleansings and genocides and sent them to create a home in the Middle East, right? Today you choose to be interested in the single Jewish nation on earth and pretend it's just about the policies? Nobody buys it.
    Y'see, this is where sweeping generalisations and racial stereotyping can be identified on both sides of a dispute. You rightly abhor the lumping together of all Jews, making them responsible en masse for the actions of the Israeli state, and yet are quite happy to label all Europeans as having, "perfected their cleansings and genocides..." Three members of my family lost their lives fighting Nazism, and the total number of Europeans who lost their lives actively fighting against fascism outnumbers the number of Americans who died by about 50 to 1.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Sometimes.....only a hotter fire can be used to fight another fire.
    Sounds like something someone from Chicago would say. But it certainly does not uphold freedom to subject the exercise of such to the irrational responses of idiots.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I don't recall seeing that line in the Constitution. "Congress shall make no law abridging free speech, but if people are not responsible then the law shall fall upon their shoulders." It is a fundamental right, and it is not abridged because it may cause offense. We accept the consequences of being a nation that protects free speech, and suffer together what may come, just as we do with all of our other rights.
    Well, your constitution isn't necessarily a document I feel needs to dictate my actions or attitudes.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Sounds like something someone from Chicago would say. But it certainly does not uphold freedom to subject the exercise of such to the irrational responses of idiots.
    Do you think Cicero thought the same with the Republic.....before Julius Ceasar removed his head from his shoulders?

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    You prove my point. The word alone is enough to freak you out. Did you really leave the ghetto? Because your reactionary post proves how easy it is to irresponsibly incite violence. Did I just provoke you? I guess that's just my hapless irresponsible rights, huh?
    No, you did not. I did not demand you get off the forum, haven't since trolled and flamed you across the forum, retaliated in any way and ended on a note I think to some degree we agree upon.

    Freedom of speech involves, inherently, provocation. If you say or print something and it provokes no one, you said nothing of consequence. At some levels, avoiding provocation in terms of values, beliefs and ideals is just cowardice, retreat and surrender.

    Those violent religious zealots are the enemy of us, our values, our freedoms and endanger our lives. We should NEVER appease them. The film and 1,000 more like it is exactly how we should foremost fight them - information, truth, freedom of speech - similar to "Radio Free Europe" we waged against the oppressions of the USSR against their own people. To fight their words with overwhelming more and greater words. We should be overwhelming their radio and TV frequencies with counter presentations of messages of freedom, civil rights, human rights, equality, freedom of speech etc.

    If they resort to violence we should also then respond with overwhelming greater violence. A war of words they wage and we should counter wage with greater force. If they make it also a violent war, we should also then counter with greater counter violence.

    The President and others urging "shhhhh, be careful what you say or they might kill more people" is the absolutely WORSE response. First, that is a surrender and second it rewards them with exactly the concession they wanted. They wanted - and got - the US government to concede defeat to them - and it has.
    Last edited by joko104; 09-12-12 at 04:55 PM.

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