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Thread: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

  1. #491
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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Or the dumb... American not realizing inflammatory actions will incite such actions by murdering fanatics. Who'd of thought it, hey?

    Paul
    Rights are not rights because of their function, we do not support free speech on the sole strut that we believe it serves societal utility, which it certainly does. We support it because we believe it is valuable in and of itself, that sovereignty over your words is one of the most precious things and it would be abhorrent to limit them no matter how horrendous or damaging the speech is. The United States has some of the most liberal views of free speech on the planet, perhaps the most liberal. The bar for prohibited speech is extremely high and is usually temporary and situational almost never a permanent prohibition (i.e. in the midst of an actual riot), this also extends to everything from our extremely strict view on libel and artistic expression (video game, film, book censorship which is much more prevalent abroad).

    If you think your society cannot handle the price of that kind of freedom that is your right, ours can and we value it too strongly to let fundamentalists in Benghazi alter that. I have nothing but disdain for this Pastor Terry but I imagine most sincere patriots in this country no matter what end of the spectrum, would put an army between him and any group foreign or domestic that wanted to violently prevent his right to air his film.

    Being a true progressive (not that I am) mean's more than just being in support of gay marriage, social justice, or abortion rights.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Then don't be so surprised when the murdering fanatics do what they know best.

    Paul
    What would that be? Killing the Innocent, the UnArmed. As they are afraid to come across those that have no Conscience? Those that wont play and will rip their heart out and eat it Right there in front of all their lil buddies?

    Why do you think they run from such?

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Second, one wouldn't go out of his way to paint "**** Jesus" on the side of a bus and park it at a church
    We've had things like "piss Christ" and other sorts of things. Since Christianity is the predominate religion in America, in America Christianity is going to take the brunt of the blow.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    or "**** Darkie" on a bus and park it in the ghetto if they weren't expecting a rise, maybe even a violent retaliation from somebody.
    Rude for sure, likely to piss people off. However, if someone did do such a thing that would not be legitimate excuse for assault

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    This person should except the responsibility of his obvious provocation, because nobody tuning in would be surprised with his bruises.
    Perhaps. And if the dude gets popped in the mouth once, I don't think anyone would bat an eye. If someone shoots him, or fires a missile into a building though, we may be looking for those who acted out in violence. Bruises do not quite equate to killing and blowing things up.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I don't see burning Qu'rans (Bibles) as a simple hapless display of freedom simply because the needless offense is against Muslims. And since this recent violent event wasn't entirely based on this video, there's no sense in adding it to the category. But the truth is that this "director" merely wanted to express his personal hatreds...not "whistle blow the religion" for which even the dumbest of authors have done a better educational job through books.
    And people have been free to express their personal hatred for some time. There's no law against being dumb, and terrorist response isn't valid enough excuse to create one.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by sherman123 View Post
    rights are not rights because of their function, we do not support free speech on the sole strut that we believe it serves societal utility, which it certainly does. We support it because we believe it is valuable in and of itself, that sovereignty over your words is one of the most precious things and it would be abhorrent to limit them no matter how horrendous or damaging the speech is. The united states has some of the most liberal views of free speech on the planet, perhaps the most liberal. The bar for prohibited speech is extremely high and is usually temporary and situational almost never a permanent prohibition (i.e. In the midst of an actual riot), this also extends to everything from our extremely strict view on libel and artistic expression (video game, film, book censorship which is much more prevalent abroad).

    If you think your society cannot handle the price of that kind of freedom that is your right, ours can and we value it too strongly to let fundamentalists in benghazi alter that. I have nothing but disdain for this pastor terry but i imagine most sincere patriots in this country no matter what end of the spectrum, would put an army between him and any group foreign or domestic that wanted to violently prevent his right to air his film.

    Being a true progressive (not that i am) mean's more than just being in support of gay marriage, social justice, or abortion rights.
    terry jones has no film.....

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's just the apologist for the free world doing his thing.

    He's a really cool guy.

    Wesley Snipes thought he was Cool to.....especially when he said Screw paying taxes. Notice where his azz is.

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Or the dumb... American not realizing inflammatory actions will incite such actions by murdering fanatics. Who'd of thought it, hey?

    Paul
    How are Europeans containing any possible 'inflammatory actions"?

    I'm sure the American people can learn a lot from Europeans in this regard.

  7. #497
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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    [QUOTE=Gardener;1060901230]
    Yes, when you repeat the absolutely CLASSIC antisemitic canard about Jews being manipulative puppetmasters, but change the word "Jew" to "Israel", there are some of us who are not fooled by the subterfuge. When you then try to claim that this canard is somehow a valid a criticism of Israel policy, some of us will call you on that ruse, too.

    The only reason some of the American posters are doing this (ad nauseam as you say) is that so many of you European posters follow the same script ad nauseam. Not all do, of course, as Arcana doesn't, Djoop doesn't and Ben doesn't, but there are plenty who do.
    I disagreed with most policies under the Bush regime does that mean I hate Americans ?

    Now, that is sure some direct justification for murder.

    Good Job, Gunner!
    YOU know full well I'm not justifying the murder of one of the most integrated Ambassadors in the ME. Fluent in Arabic, and the customs Libya. So, quit with the 'cheap shots'.

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    terry jones has no film.....
    What? My understanding was that this entire incident was sparked by his attempt to produce/air his anti-Islamic film.

    Obscure Film Mocking Muslim Prophet Sparks Anti-U.S. Protests in Egypt and Libya - NYTimes.com

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm pointing out the difference between Euro and US free speech, and that your apologist attitude is what feeds into the pansified Euro-version.
    I think the difference in our attitudes, and this is not remotely a general difference between European and American attitudes, is that I believe in the right of free speech tempered by sensitivity to others and a sense that everyone who exercises that right also has a responsability to weigh the possible consequences of saying what they wish to say. This seems to be something that people like you, Terry Jones, Geert Wilders, that film-maker refuse to accept. And, btw, no right is absolute.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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    Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How are Europeans containing any possible 'inflammatory actions"?

    I'm sure the American people can learn a lot from Europeans in this regard.
    Who's talking about European inflammatory actions?

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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