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Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I'm "Meh" to it all..

As for the killing of the American Ambassador, well thats the chance he took when he was over in such a hostile environment where the US has had such a dirty hand in so many dealings.

Call it Karma or just retribution but no real loss to me, the US will learn through these killings that they (THE US) cannot play such games without impunity

Wherever Muslims gather together in any great numbers tends to become a hostile environment.

The loss of the Ambassador saddened far more people than the loss of your life ever would.

I guess we can call that Karma or just retribution as well.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

While I understand that, I'm not going to excuse interventionist forever war as an acceptable and proper solution to such a problem.

I suppose it depends on the problem.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

We do not limit our rights according to the sensitivities of terrorists.

Then don't be so surprised when the murdering fanatics do what they know best.

Paul
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

This is the biggest charge placed on European posters by most American users, on this board, and repeated to ad nauseam. They just cant believe it is possible to be critical of a Countries policy and not hate it's population....

Yes, when you repeat the absolutely CLASSIC antisemitic canard about Jews being manipulative puppetmasters, but change the word "Jew" to "Israel", there are some of us who are not fooled by the subterfuge. When you then try to claim that this canard is somehow a valid a criticism of Israel policy, some of us will call you on that ruse, too.

The only reason some of the American posters are doing this (ad nauseam as you say) is that so many of you European posters follow the same script ad nauseam. Not all do, of course, as Arcana doesn't, Djoop doesn't and Ben doesn't, but there are plenty who do.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Cartoons cause provocation and violence, movies cause provocation and violence, books cause provocation and violence, advertising causes provocation and violence. The list appears to be endless.

What do you suggest the western world do in order to be sure we never provoke Muslims?

First of all, the list is endless because everything is offensive to Muslims.

Second, one wouldn't go out of his way to paint "**** Jesus" on the side of a bus and park it at a church or "**** Darkie" on a bus and park it in the ghetto if they weren't expecting a rise, maybe even a violent retaliation from somebody. This person should except the responsibility of his obvious provocation, because nobody tuning in would be surprised with his bruises. I don't see burning Qu'rans (Bibles) as a simple hapless display of freedom simply because the needless offense is against Muslims. And since this recent violent event wasn't entirely based on this video, there's no sense in adding it to the category. But the truth is that this "director" merely wanted to express his personal hatreds...not "whistle blow the religion" for which even the dumbest of authors have done a better educational job through books.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Oh, please. Here comes that Euro-version of free speech.

I see you're trying to clamp down on my right to say what I want about brain-dead polemicist film-makers. Or perhaps you're just expressing an opinion too.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Then don't be so surprised when the murdering fanatics do what they know best.

Paul

Now, that is sure some direct justification for murder.

Good Job, Gunner!
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Then don't be so surprised when the murdering fanatics do what they know best.

Paul

Who's surprised? Not me.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I suppose it depends on the problem.

Humanity is likely a ways off from giving up the whole war thing, if we ever do (though I do think it is within our ability to do). There's always going to be "someone" coming to get us in some manner. The best we can do is to keep our ear to the ground and be prepared. But we shouldn't fly off the handle at every opportunity and start invading countries left and right....particularly without declaration of war. Though this is likely starting to get off the topic here.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

You're projecting onto me what you perceive ....


Yep, I misdirected by mistake. No hard feelings.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Originally Posted by MSgt
Maybe she is exercising a bit of common sense and intelligence? Go to a ghetto and scream "nigger!" If you wind up dead, nobody will exonerate you of responsibility for causing your own death. Provocation, masked as freedom of speech, is ignorant.

Given the outrageous bigotry against African-Americans in that brief message of yours, I am confident you look for every excuse you can find to post and say "n.gger" as your term for African-Americans.

Your message is a god-damn f...king collection of racism and lies.

In fact, going into a ghetto (name one you've ever been in) and shouting "n..gger" will not get you killed. Doing so while being aggressive towards someone might result in a fight.

In fact, if a person was murdered "in a ghetto" after shouting "n..gger," the murderer would be prosecuted and convicted if proven.

Since you presume that all "ghettos" are occupied by"n..ggers" (your word and of course that is totally false - and where you appear to think black people belong too) - that racist presumption of yours also pointing to how grossly bigoted your message is. All ghettos are NOT African-American communities.

Finally, I can state with certainty that in fact you will not hear the word "n..gger" 1/1oth as often anywhere than that word is used - and shouted - within an African-American ghetto.

Sincerely,
Joko
Former African-American Ghetto resident

PS.
However, I fully agree there are such at thing as fighting words and believe in "jungle law" and that some words justify usage of violence. Ridiculing a religion is not such an instance.
 
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Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

You know there are thousands and thousands of Americans who have lived and worked all over the Arab world without incident for the past 7 decades.

Is this intended to be a response to me post?

If so, can you explain the connection between people working somewhere in the world and how not to provoke Muslims?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I see you're trying to clamp down on my right to say what I want about brain-dead polemicist film-makers. Or perhaps you're just expressing an opinion too.

I'm pointing out the difference between Euro and US free speech, and that your apologist attitude is what feeds into the pansified Euro-version.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Yep, I misdirected by mistake. No hard feelings.

No problem. You're a thoughtful and insightful poster, even if I often disagree with you.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

The U.S. embassy had put out a statement earlier on Tuesday condemning "misguided individuals" who hurt the religious feelings of Muslims or followers of other religions.

"We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others," the U.S. embassy said in its statement.....snip~


Team Obama's first released statement.

It's just the apologist for the free world doing his thing.

He's a really cool guy.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Or the dumb... American not realizing inflammatory actions will incite such actions by murdering fanatics. Who'd of thought it, hey?

Paul

Rights are not rights because of their function, we do not support free speech on the sole strut that we believe it serves societal utility, which it certainly does. We support it because we believe it is valuable in and of itself, that sovereignty over your words is one of the most precious things and it would be abhorrent to limit them no matter how horrendous or damaging the speech is. The United States has some of the most liberal views of free speech on the planet, perhaps the most liberal. The bar for prohibited speech is extremely high and is usually temporary and situational almost never a permanent prohibition (i.e. in the midst of an actual riot), this also extends to everything from our extremely strict view on libel and artistic expression (video game, film, book censorship which is much more prevalent abroad).

If you think your society cannot handle the price of that kind of freedom that is your right, ours can and we value it too strongly to let fundamentalists in Benghazi alter that. I have nothing but disdain for this Pastor Terry but I imagine most sincere patriots in this country no matter what end of the spectrum, would put an army between him and any group foreign or domestic that wanted to violently prevent his right to air his film.

Being a true progressive (not that I am) mean's more than just being in support of gay marriage, social justice, or abortion rights.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Then don't be so surprised when the murdering fanatics do what they know best.

Paul

What would that be? Killing the Innocent, the UnArmed. As they are afraid to come across those that have no Conscience? Those that wont play and will rip their heart out and eat it Right there in front of all their lil buddies?

Why do you think they run from such?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Second, one wouldn't go out of his way to paint "**** Jesus" on the side of a bus and park it at a church

We've had things like "piss Christ" and other sorts of things. Since Christianity is the predominate religion in America, in America Christianity is going to take the brunt of the blow.

or "**** Darkie" on a bus and park it in the ghetto if they weren't expecting a rise, maybe even a violent retaliation from somebody.

Rude for sure, likely to piss people off. However, if someone did do such a thing that would not be legitimate excuse for assault

This person should except the responsibility of his obvious provocation, because nobody tuning in would be surprised with his bruises.

Perhaps. And if the dude gets popped in the mouth once, I don't think anyone would bat an eye. If someone shoots him, or fires a missile into a building though, we may be looking for those who acted out in violence. Bruises do not quite equate to killing and blowing things up.

I don't see burning Qu'rans (Bibles) as a simple hapless display of freedom simply because the needless offense is against Muslims. And since this recent violent event wasn't entirely based on this video, there's no sense in adding it to the category. But the truth is that this "director" merely wanted to express his personal hatreds...not "whistle blow the religion" for which even the dumbest of authors have done a better educational job through books.

And people have been free to express their personal hatred for some time. There's no law against being dumb, and terrorist response isn't valid enough excuse to create one.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

rights are not rights because of their function, we do not support free speech on the sole strut that we believe it serves societal utility, which it certainly does. We support it because we believe it is valuable in and of itself, that sovereignty over your words is one of the most precious things and it would be abhorrent to limit them no matter how horrendous or damaging the speech is. The united states has some of the most liberal views of free speech on the planet, perhaps the most liberal. The bar for prohibited speech is extremely high and is usually temporary and situational almost never a permanent prohibition (i.e. In the midst of an actual riot), this also extends to everything from our extremely strict view on libel and artistic expression (video game, film, book censorship which is much more prevalent abroad).

If you think your society cannot handle the price of that kind of freedom that is your right, ours can and we value it too strongly to let fundamentalists in benghazi alter that. I have nothing but disdain for this pastor terry but i imagine most sincere patriots in this country no matter what end of the spectrum, would put an army between him and any group foreign or domestic that wanted to violently prevent his right to air his film.

Being a true progressive (not that i am) mean's more than just being in support of gay marriage, social justice, or abortion rights.

terry jones has no film.....
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

It's just the apologist for the free world doing his thing.

He's a really cool guy.


Wesley Snipes thought he was Cool to.....especially when he said Screw paying taxes. Notice where his azz is. ;)
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Or the dumb... American not realizing inflammatory actions will incite such actions by murdering fanatics. Who'd of thought it, hey?

Paul

How are Europeans containing any possible 'inflammatory actions"?

I'm sure the American people can learn a lot from Europeans in this regard.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Yes, when you repeat the absolutely CLASSIC antisemitic canard about Jews being manipulative puppetmasters, but change the word "Jew" to "Israel", there are some of us who are not fooled by the subterfuge. When you then try to claim that this canard is somehow a valid a criticism of Israel policy, some of us will call you on that ruse, too.

The only reason some of the American posters are doing this (ad nauseam as you say) is that so many of you European posters follow the same script ad nauseam. Not all do, of course, as Arcana doesn't, Djoop doesn't and Ben doesn't, but there are plenty who do.

I disagreed with most policies under the Bush regime does that mean I hate Americans ?

Now, that is sure some direct justification for murder.

Good Job, Gunner!

YOU know full well I'm not justifying the murder of one of the most integrated Ambassadors in the ME. Fluent in Arabic, and the customs Libya. So, quit with the 'cheap shots'.

Paul
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I'm pointing out the difference between Euro and US free speech, and that your apologist attitude is what feeds into the pansified Euro-version.

I think the difference in our attitudes, and this is not remotely a general difference between European and American attitudes, is that I believe in the right of free speech tempered by sensitivity to others and a sense that everyone who exercises that right also has a responsability to weigh the possible consequences of saying what they wish to say. This seems to be something that people like you, Terry Jones, Geert Wilders, that film-maker refuse to accept. And, btw, no right is absolute.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

How are Europeans containing any possible 'inflammatory actions"?

I'm sure the American people can learn a lot from Europeans in this regard.

Who's talking about European inflammatory actions?

Paul
 
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