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Thread: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by avusbluem5 View Post
    Not all houses get their energy from coal.

    We have Nuclear, Hydro, wind and geothermal which are zero CO2 emission sources of electricity.

    Coal power in the United States accounted for 42% of the country's electricity production in 2011. Other carbon based sources brings that up to 68%. So if everyone converted to Hydrogen fuel cell transportation, we'd see a ~32% reduction in co2 emissions.
    Most greens are opposed to nuclear (disposal of spent fuel and plant parts, and risks) and there is no significant amount of hydro, wind or geothermal in the US (perhaps except very small geographic areas).

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Well, it's clear Volt attackers easily see this as political with all the references to "Obamacar." The opposition to the car is more about opposition to Obama than anything else.

    Lamborghini Sales Increase 23 Percent In 2011

    I'm not a particularly partisan person.

    I don't doubt that a number of the people in this thread are politically motivated in pointing out the Volts' anemic sales but they are still right. GM's investment in the Volt was a terrible business decision. Covering your ears, closing your eyes, and screaming "YES WE CAN!" to drawn out the arguments will never change that.

    If the number of car sales is so critical, then would you say Lamborghini is an unsuccessful, unprofitable company?
    I know you think you're making an intelligent point here but you're really not.

    The number of cars sold isn't really critical. It's selling enough cars to pay all your bills with enough left over to make a profit that is critical. GM spent $1.2 BILLION developing just the technology for the Chevy Volt. You can scream "YES WE CAN!" until you turn purple but GM still has to sell a whole lot of cars just to recoup that investment. Lamborghini doesn't have to recoup a billion dollar developmental cost. They also have an extremely high mark up on their cars. I don't know what it is for sure but it's probably in the area of ten times that of GM's Volt.

    Making far more per car plus not having the obscene development costs GM has means that Lamborghini can sell a small number of cars and still make a whole lot of money.

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    I'm not a particularly partisan person.

    I don't doubt that a number of the people in this thread are politically motivated in pointing out the Volts' anemic sales but they are still right. GM's investment in the Volt was a terrible business decision. Covering your ears, closing your eyes, and screaming "YES WE CAN!"...
    You should have stopped before the obvious Obama reference. You just revealed a political bias/lean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    I know you think you're making an intelligent point here but you're really not.

    The number of cars sold isn't really critical. It's selling enough cars to pay all your bills with enough left over to make a profit that is critical. GM spent $1.2 BILLION developing just the technology for the Chevy Volt. You can scream "YES WE CAN!" until you turn purple but GM still has to sell a whole lot of cars just to recoup that investment. Lamborghini doesn't have to recoup a billion dollar developmental cost. They also have an extremely high mark up on their cars. I don't know what it is for sure but it's probably in the area of ten times that of GM's Volt.

    Making far more per car plus not having the obscene development costs GM has means that Lamborghini can sell a small number of cars and still make a whole lot of money.
    Hammering and underlining on the $1.2 billion point only works as the travesty you desire if the technology developed is only used in one car ever (which will not happen), and they stopped making Volts now, which you are encouraging them to do. The tech developed for the car will get used in many other types. So that cost will get spread around. Here's other folks making this clear...

    The statement that GM “loses” over $40K per Volt is preposterous. What the “analyst” in whom poor Ben Klayman placed his faith has done is to divide the total development cost and plant investment by the number of Volts produced thus far. That’s like saying that a real estate company that puts up a $10 million building and has rental income of one million the first year is “losing” 9 million dollars, or several hundred thousand per renter.

    Listen, Ben and Micheline: that’s not how car business cost accounting works.
    The Real Story On GM's Volt Costs - Forbes

    GM's response:
    DETROIT – Reuters’ estimate of the current loss per unit for each Volt sold is grossly wrong, in part because the reporters allocated product development costs across the number of Volts sold instead of allocating across the lifetime volume of the program, which is how business operates. The Reuters’ numbers become more wrong with each Volt sold.

    In addition, our core research into battery cells, battery packs, controls, electric motors, regenerative braking and other technologies has applications across multiple current and future products, which will help spread costs over a much higher volume, thereby reducing manufacturing and purchasing costs. This will eventually lead to profitability for the Volt and future electrified vehicles.
    GM Response to Reuters Story on Chevrolet Volt Development Costs
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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Hammering and underlining on the $1.2 billion point only works as the travesty you desire if the technology developed is only used in one car ever (which will not happen), and they stopped making Volts now, which you are encouraging them to do. The tech developed for the car will get used in many other types. So that cost will get spread around. Here's other folks making this clear...
    For you this is politics but for GM this is business.

    You're looking at the amount of Volts sold to date and coming to the conclusion that it makes business sense to take resources away from the gas powered automobiles that actually make GM money in favor of developing new electric cars for no other reason than the Volt is loosely tied to the Obama campaign and you support him. That's it.

    The fact of the matter is people have shown no real interest in buying electric cars. GM is very well aware of this, having invested $1.2 BILLION in what is quickly becoming one of history's biggest flops. They're not going to invest more money in electric cars. They're halting production of the Volt for, I believe, the second time in less than two years due to anemic sales. I wouldn't be tremendously surprised if they discontinue the car entirely in the coming weeks.

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    For you this is politics but for GM this is business.

    You're looking at the amount of Volts sold to date and coming to the conclusion that it makes business sense to take resources away from the gas powered automobiles that actually make GM money in favor of developing new electric cars for no other reason than the Volt is loosely tied to the Obama campaign and you support him. That's it.

    The fact of the matter is people have shown no real interest in buying electric cars. GM is very well aware of this, having invested $1.2 BILLION in what is quickly becoming one of history's biggest flops. They're not going to invest more money in electric cars. They're halting production of the Volt for, I believe, the second time in less than two years due to anemic sales. I wouldn't be tremendously surprised if they discontinue the car entirely in the coming weeks.
    Well, you guessed. Thanks for trying. I like electric vehicles because I want to get away from foreign oil and otherwise an automotive power source that must fail us eventually. My thinking is along the lines of energy security. Relying upon the hostile nations in OPEC to be fair with us regarding our nation's life blood is the absolute pinnacle of stupidity. Most of our oil is consumed in cars and trucks. So if we want to plug a gargantuan security hole, we need cars and trucks which do not rely on OPEC oil to keep running. The best choice is electric vehicles because they can run on electricity from damn near anything from nuclear to NG to algeal diesel. Whatever direction we go with energy, electric vehicles can use it. This energy flexibility makes EVs the far superior choice.

    So if you're one of those anti-American crowd who like being dependent on foreign oil, you just run with that and be happy. I don't care for this liberal viewpoint. For me, it's America first all the way. We can't make enough of our own oil to supply our own needs without using it all up in a few decades. And then the many other products we get from our own oil including fertilizer and plastics will not be available to us anymore. And then we'll have to go begging for handouts. SO, if we get our power from other American means while creating American jobs, electric cars are the best choice. And domestic American oil will last a long, long time. I don't mind helping out other countries if that's what you're after, but we need to get our **** squared away before we go creating energy jobs for everybody else, instead of Americans. Once we're stable with energy and not relying on crust of bread energy from the Saudis and Hugo Chavez THEN we can chase after you more liberal concerns.
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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Well, you guessed. Thanks for trying. I like electric vehicles because I want to get away from foreign oil and otherwise an automotive power source that must fail us eventually. My thinking is along the lines of energy security. Relying upon the hostile nations in OPEC to be fair with us regarding our nation's life blood is the absolute pinnacle of stupidity. Most of our oil is consumed in cars and trucks. So if we want to plug a gargantuan security hole, we need cars and trucks which do not rely on OPEC oil to keep running. The best choice is electric vehicles because they can run on electricity from damn near anything from nuclear to NG to algeal diesel. Whatever direction we go with energy, electric vehicles can use it. This energy flexibility makes EVs the far superior choice.

    So if you're one of those anti-American crowd who like being dependent on foreign oil, you just run with that and be happy. I don't care for this liberal viewpoint. For me, it's America first all the way. We can't make enough of our own oil to supply our own needs without using it all up in a few decades. And then the many other products we get from our own oil including fertilizer and plastics will not be available to us anymore. And then we'll have to go begging for handouts. SO, if we get our power from other American means while creating American jobs, electric cars are the best choice. And domestic American oil will last a long, long time. I don't mind helping out other countries if that's what you're after, but we need to get our **** squared away before we go creating energy jobs for everybody else, instead of Americans. Once we're stable with energy and not relying on crust of bread energy from the Saudis and Hugo Chavez THEN we can chase after you more liberal concerns.
    Yes, EagleAye, you're exactly right.

    I must be anti-American because I recognize selling 2,500 cars a month is pretty horrendous after a company invested $1.2 BILLION developing them.



    You're partisan stupidity isn't just worth responding to anymore. Consider yourself ignored.

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    Yes, EagleAye, you're exactly right.

    I must be anti-American because I recognize selling 2,500 cars a month is pretty horrendous after a company invested $1.2 BILLION developing them.



    You're partisan stupidity isn't just worth responding to anymore. Consider yourself ignored.
    No, because your ideas make us dependent upon our enemies. Why do this knowingly? And what's partisan about energy security? I did say we can help out other countries if that's what upsets you, just that we should handle our own energy. How is that too partisan?
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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Well, you guessed. Thanks for trying. I like electric vehicles because I want to get away from foreign oil and otherwise an automotive power source that must fail us eventually. My thinking is along the lines of energy security. Relying upon the hostile nations in OPEC to be fair with us regarding our nation's life blood is the absolute pinnacle of stupidity. Most of our oil is consumed in cars and trucks. So if we want to plug a gargantuan security hole, we need cars and trucks which do not rely on OPEC oil to keep running. The best choice is electric vehicles because they can run on electricity from damn near anything from nuclear to NG to algeal diesel. Whatever direction we go with energy, electric vehicles can use it. This energy flexibility makes EVs the far superior choice.

    So if you're one of those anti-American crowd who like being dependent on foreign oil, you just run with that and be happy. I don't care for this liberal viewpoint. For me, it's America first all the way. We can't make enough of our own oil to supply our own needs without using it all up in a few decades. And then the many other products we get from our own oil including fertilizer and plastics will not be available to us anymore. And then we'll have to go begging for handouts. SO, if we get our power from other American means while creating American jobs, electric cars are the best choice. And domestic American oil will last a long, long time. I don't mind helping out other countries if that's what you're after, but we need to get our **** squared away before we go creating energy jobs for everybody else, instead of Americans. Once we're stable with energy and not relying on crust of bread energy from the Saudis and Hugo Chavez THEN we can chase after you more liberal concerns.
    Your whole argument is foreign oil, you know we send 500 billion a yrs to Oil Lords, so why not bring home that 500 billion a yr and all the jobs that go with it HOME. Then you would say we don't have the oil? Sure we do, all we have to do is open up our lands to exploration, and build Keystone that brings oil in from a friendly nation.

    Electric cars have been around for decades, there is not one green anything that can compete in price of oil, natural gas, or coal. Without government using tax payer money there would not be a windmill, solar panel, or an electric car. They cannot compete, right now natural gas is as cheap as it ever was and we have a thousand yrs of the stuff, same with coal, and our lands and off shore is full of oil, and so is our close neighbor Canada. Drill here drill now and team up with Canada and say good by to Oil Lords.

    Electric cars is at best an around town car, it's not going to take you 300 miles to no where, let alone and long haul truck, going across country. Batteries are not going to do it. Electric cars now, try turning on the heat when it's O degrees outside, batteries do not work in cold or high heat and turning on the heat you will probably not make it out the drive way. The when it's 95 degrees outside try turning on the air and see how far you get. Last if it were not for government subsidizing these cars they would not sell one. Not one.
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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    No, because your ideas make us dependent upon our enemies. Why do this knowingly? And what's partisan about energy security? I did say we can help out other countries if that's what upsets you, just that we should handle our own energy. How is that too partisan?
    In bold I totally agree with, so now read my post #68
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Why not? Hes already paid for several through the income tax. We should all be getting them for free since the taxpayers still owns GM.
    Not unless they personally own GM stock.

    Get your facts straight. The treasury still holds shares of GM stock as part the bailout deal.

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