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Thread: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Id love to see a hybrid that can do that. Unfortunately, I think the only way they are going to engineer a truck to get that kind of mileage consistently is by making it a diesel. And it would need significant range. To get to the lake I usually head to I have to travel about 300 miles round trip.
    That's the beauty of of hybrid technology, the energy is stored in the form of liquid hydrocarbons.
    And yes the power supply engine would likely be diesel.
    What you would lose would be the transmission, and the engine big enough to start a load rolling, (or up the ramp)
    Keep in mind with electric hub motors, you have 100% of the torque from a dead stop.
    This is why the car companies are missing the boat, small cars do not leverage the advantages
    of hybrid technology.

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog View Post
    If you want to bash the automotive bailout on it's own, be my guest. But nobody here or anybody else outside of GM gets to decide when the Volt program is over and they sure as hell aren't going to do it just 2 years in.
    Why shouldnt we decide? We own it.

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog View Post
    Ughh, the volt was:
    - European Car of the Year
    - North American Car of the Year
    - Motor Trend Car of the Yea
    - and Automobile Magazine Automobile of the Year

    Automotive experts see this as an achievement in innovation while the narrow minded want to bash it so they can make a loose political point. Good thing some of you weren't in charge of NASA when Apollo 1 caught fire.
    It doesn't matter how innovative a product is if it is not economical.

    It's one thing for automotive magazines to rave about the innovation of a car they're loaned. It's entirely another thing for an average family to plunk down the cost of a BMW for an entry level Chevy.

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Hybrids are a great idea, that's why many trains and ships are hybrids,
    And when the car companies build a real one, it will be obvious.
    unfortunately the car companies don't understand what they have, or how to apply it.
    The first hybrid vehicle should be an all wheel drive 1 ton truck, with 4 hub motors.
    Pull a big camper, horse trailer, or boat, and get 30 mpg.
    The delta of 10 to 20 MPG would be significant enough to attract attention, and the price point
    is already high.
    They do know what they have,

    But the issue is tens of billions of dollars invested in the current technology ( non hybrid) most of which has been throughly developed and the costs amortized over millions of cars

    The hybrid car you describe would require massive investments in new technology at a very high price point. Combined with a reluctant market ( consumers) it makes most companies take a slow route to the end process you describe

    The Volt, Prius are truelly development vehicles, with the volt being the first one that can operate in series mode ( engine not being used to actually move the car but just provide the energy for the electric motor).

    Audi e-tron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    audi might be the first to offer something similar to what you describe, or BMW with its i-3 or i-8 models.
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    You dont get much for $40K. It looks like an economy car and costs what a nice sedan does. Add its very limited range and that is all there really is to it.

    It makes no economic sense, its a niche product.
    first 40 miles on electricity which basically means that you don't ever use gas unless you do a road-trip. That's not economical? lol... whatever man.
    Last edited by poweRob; 09-12-12 at 12:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Own one? Know people that do? I know 3. 1 actually drives his occasionally. That pretty much is inline with surveys that say that only about 1/3 of current hybrid type cars will ever buy another one.
    I don't even compare the Volt with other hybrids. Hybrids we have seen thus far are engines that use electricity as a boost. The volt is an electric car that uses a gas generator to charge the batteries. So the Volt is and stays an electric car at all times. Solar grid-tie your house and you never pay for fuel again pretty much because it's first 40 miles are all electric. For 98% of the American population, that is more than their daily commutes. Imagine being able to tell OPEC to go **** themselves forever.

    It's a really smart concept put into action. Price has to come down though. But economically, that's what happens when new tech becomes more widely adopted and mass production kicks in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    “The actual cost to build the Volt is estimated to be an additional $20,000 to $32,000 per vehicle (nice range estimate), according to Munro and the other industry consultants.”

    So, given that the $1.2 billion $1.0 billion is all in a one-time development cost to begin an entirely new breed of automobile, and will be amortized over whatever the end result of production will be (perhaps in the hundreds of thousands), this figure has nothing to do with the ongoing cost of producing the Volt at all, and their statement that selling new Volts “probably isn’t a good thing for the automaker’s bottom line,” or that GM is “losing as much as $49,000 on each Volt it builds” is total nonsense.

    In actual fact according to their experts, GM may be making $7,000 to $19,000 for every new sale the company logs. That is the story they should have wrote.
    Good analysis. I find it amusing all of these "conservatives" who are supposed to be so "business minded" but don't even understand basic cost accounting.

    I think looking at the article's comparison with the Chevy Cruz, the Volt's gasoline twin is very telling...

    From the Reuters hit piece...

    Volt's conventional gasoline-engine sister car, which Munro estimates (cost to build) at $12,000 to $15,000 per vehicle.

    The Cruze has a starting sales price of $17,925.
    So, base model Cruz cost $12k to build and sells for $17,925, a $5,295 margin, (we don't have the price of the top of the line model, so we'll just use base model numbers)

    Even the biased author of this POS hit piece tells us that the margin on a Volt is.... wait for it... $7,000 to $19,000!!!!

    So, maybe GM should stop making the Cruz, and focus only on the Volt? Since the Volt is by a large margin, a more profitable car to build.


    As for the R&D cost... That is a sunk cost. GM either expensed it when it was incurred, or is amortizing it over the life of the intangible asset. If it is being amortized over time, then it would fall below the EBITDA line on the financial statements... For all of you business minded "conservatives", EBITDA is Earnings before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization, and is widely used measure of efficiency, profitability and cashflow.


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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I don't even compare the Volt with other hybrids. Hybrids we have seen thus far are engines that use electricity as a boost. The volt is an electric car that uses a gas generator to charge the batteries. So the Volt is and stays an electric car at all times. Solar grid-tie your house and you never pay for fuel again pretty much because it's first 40 miles are all electric. For 98% of the American population, that is more than their daily commutes. Imagine being able to tell OPEC to go **** themselves forever.

    It's a really smart concept put into action. Price has to come down though. But economically, that's what happens when new tech becomes more widely adopted and mass production kicks in.
    Its wonderful if it ever becomes viable. Frankly we can give OPEC the big kissoff if we would just utilize our own fuel reserves and be a little smarter about mass transit. I know people that own the Volt. 2 regret it. 1 drives it but honestly I believe I does it because he is the type that refuses to admit he has made a mistake.

    We'll see how it plays out long term. It doesnt do anything for me but if it works for some people long term, happy days. And who knows where technology will take us.

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Batteries don't charge themelves. A "hydrogen fuel cell" does not create energy from thin air. The emissions might not be at the tail-pipe, but they exist. If ones house runs on coal, then one is driving on coal and a very expensive battery (both economically and ecologically). I think fuel efficiency, through standard hybrid technology, is the way to go.

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    Re: GM Losing Up To $49,000 Per Volt

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The hybrid car you describe would require massive investments in new technology at a very high price point. Combined with a reluctant market ( consumers) it makes most companies take a slow route to the end process you describe
    I think the technology is mostly there.
    Turn Your Car Into a Plug-In Hybrid for $3,000 | Autopia | Wired.com
    The chassis , suspensions, breaking, ect, all in place.
    Use the electrical power plant and batteries,
    to replace some the weight lost with the big engine and transmission,
    tune the suspension, and drive.

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