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Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

Oh dude; c'mon . . "Soviet Russia". You're just anti-union, uninformed and you have nothing credible with which to make a case.
No, I merely think that state socialism is not the most desirable ways to provide goods and services.
 
So, therefore, your opinions mean nothing as your thinking is so skewed as to make debate useless: thanks.

How so? I think supporting public sector unions is a skewed way of thinking.
 
Teachers have no reson to lie about anything, up to and including the reason they decide to do something like strike.

Oh, you are an incredibly naive person.
 
Teachers have no reson to lie about anything, up to and including the reason they decide to do something like strike.

They have the same reasons as any other humans who lie.
 
Tell that to all those PhDs in community colleges.

I was referring to the general issue of overqualification, not to academic employment. Of course, you knew that.

Now quit dodging. You have made significant pronouncements, and I still want to know where you acquired your "expert" opinion on tenure and etc. because I don't understand how you could know so little about degrees and yet claim expertise on tenure. Please share.
 
Okay, that's it. I've been rather following your exchanges for a while here. You quite obviously do not know what you're talking about.

Post # 68

Here's some information that disputes that number and shows that the average salary is $54,000 a year. What you're talking about is an hourly package that includes all the costs.

City Of Chicago School District 299 Average Teacher Salary & How to Become a Teacher

I do know what I'm talking about. On top of that I was in collecticve bargaining for thirty years. On top of that, I function at school everyday with PhDs and other such professors who tell me these things over coffee (because I have an interest in teaching) and in class discussion.

So, thank you very much.
 
Lol. Community colleges have few, if any, PhDs on staff.

Actually, this isn't necessarily true, and particularly in this economy. Also, it's not just Ph.D's; it's Ed. D.'s too.
 
Yes, they should be. Any business who showed the poor results that CPS has shown would be out of business and another, with a better sense of what's required to succeed, would open in its place.

Exactly. It's a teacher's job to push their students to become college graduates. If they can't do that, they deserve to have their pay cut.
 
I was referring to the general issue of overqualification, not to academic employment. Of course, you knew that.

Now quit dodging. You have made significant pronouncements, and I still want to know where you acquired your "expert" opinion on tenure and etc. because I don't understand how you could know so little about degrees and yet claim expertise on tenure. Please share.

I'm over qualified for a lot of things. Tenure is in the history books dude: that's my major. Look it up!
 
Exactly. It's a teacher's job to push their students to become college graduates. If they can't do that, they deserve to have their pay cut.

No, it's a teacher's job to push their students to be their best. Not all people need to attend college nor is a college degree the epitome of "success".
 
Post # 68

I do know what I'm talking about. On top of that I was in collecticve bargaining for thirty years. On top of that, I function at school everyday with PhDs and other such professors who tell me these things over coffee (because I have an interest in teaching) and in class discussion.

So, thank you very much.

Not only do you NOT know what you're talking about, but you don't know what constitutes a reliable source. Some advertising crap on the internet is not considered especially credible. AND, since I posted a refute to that directly from the Chicago School Board, your source is not only unreliable? It's completely incorrect.

I don't know why I'm bothering.
 
Not only do you NOT know what you're talking about, but you don't know what constitutes a reliable source. Some advertising crap on the internet is not considered especially credible. AND, since I posted a refute to that directly from the Chicago School Board, your source is not only unreliable? It's completely incorrect.

I don't know why I'm bothering.

LOL your wasnt the only ones. Can't get anymore independant than the 312 for Chicago. ;)
 
Originally Posted by jet57
Oh yes it does. Just because you don't like it and are misinformed on it (as are most antiunion people) means nothing to it. Tenure will always be around. They have it at non union schools too you know. Same protections.


What did you think people only have to deal with School Unions? That they are just misinformed when it comes to Unions and Collective Bargaining. Do you always generalize that way when it comes to the kids as well? Seems you have told many.....how informed they are. Despite having the smack down over this was done for the Kids sake! Despite the UNION REP changing up what she stated Nationally.

What the hell are you talking about?
 
Tenure is in the history books dude: that's my major. Look it up!

That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.
 
Then what is your solution to the city's budget deficit?
Where are they going to find $700 million dollars?

TIF funds: The shrinking slush fund | Ben Joravsky on Politics | Chicago Reader $454 million from property taxes were diverted this year into TIF funds. I am no expert on this, admittedly, but they are basically a slush fund that the mayor has control over that is supposed to be used to promote development in poor neighborhoods but is generally, according to the author of this article "winds up going to the richest of the rich." The Chicago Reader has been running stories on TIF funds for years.

Stop spending so much money on outside programs, curriculums, consultants. Decentralize the educational system. Trust teachers to know how to teach their own students and quit micromanaging us.

Stop spending millions on closing schools, turning around schools and starting charter schools when these are expensive and arguably ineffective solutions to poor student achievement.

I would start there.

Or I know. Quit treating teachers like whipping posts, show them respect, stop closing down their schools, stop pushing programs down their throats, stop pushing agendas without consulting teachers who are THEE experts with the most experience in how to best educate the children in front of them, and stop acting as if every teacher in the city is lazy and doesn't do their job right. And then, if you show respect, you would be more likely to be able to negotiate a contract that was fair and cost less money.
 
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Using "tenure" alone is enough to disqulify that article: "tenure" is not a union benefit. Under tenure; a teacher may not be fired for any reason save unlawful activities. Tenure has to do with academic honesty and was a benefit given to collegiate professors during the reformation and into The Enlightenment. Tenure is the Holy Grail of academia. Secondly; merit pay is a non union practice that sets one against another.

Incorrect. Teachers in CPS may be fired, though there is admittedly a multi-step process.
 
What the hell are you talking about?

Uhm....that is in English. As far as I can tell. Yep, even spelled correctly.

One:School Unions are not the only ones out there......so telling people they don't know anything about Unions and collective bargaining is your misnomer.

Course the rest is the easy Part. Lewis changed up what she said Nationally. Moreovoer her actions speak louder than her words!
 
That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Sure it does. You see...tenure was standard in place before this second...or this second...or this one. And our wise old jet here is a history major. Therefore, anything that occurred before this very second - he's an expert on. Get it? :lamo
 
Nothing to do with teachers? Or their Unions?


Illinois' credit rating was downgraded by Standard & Poor's on Wednesday, a move that came after Gov. Pat Quinn's inability to persuade lawmakers to cut costs in the state's debt-ridden public employee pension system.

The agency lowered the state's credit rating from A+ to A, citing a "lack of action" on changes aimed at decreasing the pension system's unfunded liability, which could hit $93 billion by next summer if nothing is done. Standard & Poor's also gave Illinois a "negative outlook," saying the state's budget future remains uncertain.

It's unclear what impact the new rating will have on Illinois' pocketbook, but it is likely that it will cost the state more to borrow money to finance construction projects including new schools, roads and bridges.

Only California is ranked lower than Illinois by the S&P, with a credit rating of A-. But unlike Illinois, California has been given a "positive outlook." Illinois already has the lowest credit rating in the nation from Moody's Investors Service, which has warned that another downgrade is possible unless something is done to address the state's growing pension liabilities.

"We have to address the public pension reform issue," Quinn said. "It will not go away. It's imperative that we address it. ... It's regrettable that our legislature did not act promptly when they had the chance, but we just have to keep pushing them."

Quinn's comments came after a groundbreaking ceremony on a new $104 million science building at the University of Illinois at Chicago. It's the type of project that could get more expensive if the state's credit woes persist.....snip~

Illinois' credit rating downgraded after pension reform failure - Chicago Tribune


I believe pension reform.....does and will Affect teachers!

BTW Hows, that Corner you are in?

FYI - Chicago is unique in the sense that the state of Illinois does not pay much if anything at all into the Chicago teachers' pensions, unlike the rest of the state.
 
FYI - Chicago is unique in the sense that the state of Illinois does not pay much if anything at all into the Chicago teachers' pensions, unlike the rest of the state.

Hows that work out for the City of Chicago.....that does! Moreover when they use the Rate for Pension"s Percentage of mark up on that 7% in Illinois. I believe that falls under the Illinois General Assembly. Doesn't It?

FYI.....do you think those in Chicago that are well informed. Would know of Such?
 
Yes, they should be. Any business who showed the poor results that CPS has shown would be out of business and another, with a better sense of what's required to succeed, would open in its place.

You know how it would look if we treated public schools like a business? If test scores are basically "profits," and cost was money, the businesses (schools) would quickly figure out that the best way to get better test scores is to avoid troubled children, children who don't speak English, children who have learning disabilities and emotional problems, etc. That's already happening right now, where many charter schools end up keeping kids just long enough to be able to collect the money for having them in their school (20 days) before starting to kick or counsel them out. And guess where they end up? In the neighborhood schools who have to play by a different rulebook and have to admit kids at any time during the school year. I know some people would say, well if they don't want to learn, that's their fault, but a lot of these students can't help the situation they were born into. They didn't chose their parents, or their neighborhood. And I believe everyone deserves an opportunity whether they end up taking it or not, especially while they are still children.

I don't think that's any way to run an educational system, with everyone avoiding the students who need the most help. Institutions that are meant for the good of the general public are often best run differently than a business.
 
Hows that work out for the City of Chicago.....that does! Moreover when they use the Rate for Pension"s Percentage of mark up on that 7% in Illinois. I believe that falls under the Illinois General Assembly. Doesn't It?

FYI.....do you think those in Chicago that are well informed. Would know of Such?

I have no idea what you are saying here. =]
 
I have no idea what you are saying here. =]

Oh I thought you know the mark up for the percentages for ALL Public Employees. Regardless if it is a School Union. Such as the Food and Service Workers Union that works in CPS schools. Which includes the Custodians.

Also that where the Illinois General Assembly doesnt take Jurisdiction. That the City Government does!
 
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