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Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

Josie said:
Excellent idea! When your business is in the hole by millions of dollars, pay your employees more! That'll fix it! :shock:
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Well that appears to be helping us recover from the recession... :mrgreen:
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
That's crazy then.
It's not unlawful to be a crappy teacher.
So tenure protects crappy teachers from being fired.
Good to know.
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You'll never do anything with "tenure", so forget it. The best schools in the world have tenure and the parents of kids are willing to pay thousands per quater to have their kids educated by tenured staff; so . . .
 
jet57 said:
Leave everything as is. Offer a modest raise.
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They offered that modest raise.....Lewis couldn't stop talking about Healthcare benefits. Then proceeded to change the subject to school facilities. Buildings, Air Conditioning, Grounds, equipment. Security!

Anything and everything but the Kids! But the Communties! But their own Environments that they live in!!!!!
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
And when the debt downgrade comes, with higher interest rates, which will cost the city more money.
Then what will you do?
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The downgrade; that is not coming to the best of my knowledge, has nothing to do with teachers, adnmore than it has anything to do with municipal execs who make hundreds of thouands a year: in a corrupt Chicago system: remember? . . .
 
MMC said:
They offered that modest raise.....Lewis couldn't stop talking about Healthcare benefits. Then proceeded to change the subject to school facilities. Buildings, Air Conditioning, Grounds, equipment. Security!

Anything and everything but the Kids! But the Communties! But their own Environments that they live in!!!!!
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The modest raise sin't the issue then is it. You know little about collective bargaining; there is always a plathora of things put on atable: and, how is it that the students wouldn't benefit from those things? You're painting yourself into a corner.
 
jet57 said:
You'll never do anything with "tenure", so forget it. The best schools in the world have tenure and the parents of kids are willing to pay thousands per quater to have their kids educated by tenured staff; so . . .
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That doesn't make it right.

jet57 said:
The downgrade; that is not coming to the best of my knowledge, has nothing to do with teachers, adnmore than it has anything to do with municipal execs who make hundreds of thouands a year: in a corrupt Chicago system: remember? . . .
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It's already happening and if they don't reign in spending, it's gonna happen again.

Moody

The corruption is Chicago is meaningless.
Someone is taking the time to control spending, before things get much worse.
You and others are opposed to it, rather going with the status quo.
 
Josie said:
I have a question...

Is a teacher making twice the average salary of working people in her town overpaid?
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someone who works 9 months a year, and makes 30K more than the average full time worker in the locality is arguably overpaid.

Now teaches would claim they have to have advanced degrees (if not particularly good academic talent) and many others do not
 
TurtleDude said:
someone who works 9 months a year, and makes 30K more than the average full time worker in the locality is arguably overpaid.

Now teaches would claim they have to have advanced degrees (if not particularly good academic talent) and many others do not
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They don't even have to have an advanced degree, just a bachelors degree.
 
jet57 said:
The downgrade; that is not coming to the best of my knowledge, has nothing to do with teachers, adnmore than it has anything to do with municipal execs who make hundreds of thouands a year: in a corrupt Chicago system: remember? . . .
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Nothing to do with teachers? Or their Unions?


Illinois' credit rating was downgraded by Standard & Poor's on Wednesday, a move that came after Gov. Pat Quinn's inability to persuade lawmakers to cut costs in the state's debt-ridden public employee pension system.

The agency lowered the state's credit rating from A+ to A, citing a "lack of action" on changes aimed at decreasing the pension system's unfunded liability, which could hit $93 billion by next summer if nothing is done. Standard & Poor's also gave Illinois a "negative outlook," saying the state's budget future remains uncertain.

It's unclear what impact the new rating will have on Illinois' pocketbook, but it is likely that it will cost the state more to borrow money to finance construction projects including new schools, roads and bridges.

Only California is ranked lower than Illinois by the S&P, with a credit rating of A-. But unlike Illinois, California has been given a "positive outlook." Illinois already has the lowest credit rating in the nation from Moody's Investors Service, which has warned that another downgrade is possible unless something is done to address the state's growing pension liabilities.

"We have to address the public pension reform issue," Quinn said. "It will not go away. It's imperative that we address it. ... It's regrettable that our legislature did not act promptly when they had the chance, but we just have to keep pushing them."

Quinn's comments came after a groundbreaking ceremony on a new $104 million science building at the University of Illinois at Chicago. It's the type of project that could get more expensive if the state's credit woes persist.....snip~

Illinois' credit rating downgraded after pension reform failure - Chicago Tribune


I believe pension reform.....does and will Affect teachers!

BTW Hows, that Corner you are in?
 
Maggie has posted the facts about the Chicago school system's "underperformance." What Emanuel's offering over the four years seems a lot more reasonable than what the strikers are demanding and when you consider that "underperformance." (I believe Maggie's term was "disgraceful.")
 
Josie said:
Excellent idea! When your business is in the hole by millions of dollars, pay your employees more! That'll fix it! :shock:
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Public schools are not a business, nor should they be treated as such.
 
jet57 said:
Public schools are not a business, nor should they be treated as such.
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Yes, they should be. Any business who showed the poor results that CPS has shown would be out of business and another, with a better sense of what's required to succeed, would open in its place.
 
The Man said:
They don't even have to have an advanced degree, just a bachelors degree.
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true. In Ohio, I believe, (this is based on a story in the paper where one public school system wanted to use prominent retired volunteers to teach specialized courses-such as a retired chairman of the board of Proctor and Gamble (who had a Harvard MBA) teaching a class on business, or a retired doctor teaching a course on health care issues and the teachers union objected claiming that these people were Not qualified) those who taught in public schools run by the unions had to have "teaching degrees".

My prep school which has turned out three Rhodes Scholars, dozens of Ivy Phi Beta Kappas, a governor, a senator among others, had teachers who were not qualified to teach at public schools. My teachers had masters in the subjects they taught, two had PhD's (Columbia and Stanford)
 
jet57 said:
So, the kids need a lot of help and that's what the teachers are trying to get . . .
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No, they're trying to get more money for themselves while dodging what is increasingly the standard measurements/assessments. And they're doing it while literally endangering thousands of kids whose schools are not open at all or only from 8-12.
 
The Man said:
An AVERAGE of $75K, yes they do. I didn't say, and no one said that they ALL get paid $75K/year. Do you know what an average is?

And how are the rest of my assertions inaccurate?
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Your first assertion is inaccurate. (you're talking about full packages, not pay) I said that you can read my source on pay in the thread.

The rest of your stuff is just unsubstantiated nonsense as well.
 
jet57 said:
Public schools are not a business, nor should they be treated as such.
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Perhaps that is the nub of the problem. Maybe they should be.

I'm sure in Soviet Russia lots of people said, "Grocery stores are not a business and shouldn't be treated as such." And then they wondered why the food sucked and there were always bread lines.
 
jet57 said:
Public schools are not a business, nor should they be treated as such.
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In a way you are right but not for the reasons you probably believe

if a private school spends more than it takes in-it goes bankrupt unless it raises its revenue through tuition or gifts

when a public school spends more than it takes in, the government gives it more money or takes it over
 
Hi,

I'm answering 7 "quotes" at a time, so if I miss you I apologize.
 
jet57 said:
Your first assertion is inaccurate. (you're talking about full packages, not pay) I said that you can read my source on pay in the thread.

The rest of your stuff is just unsubstantiated nonsense as well.
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I'd be interested to learn where you acquired your expert opinion on tenure.
 
jet57 said:
Your first assertion is inaccurate. (you're talking about full packages, not pay) I said that you can read my source on pay in the thread.
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False. Their SALARIES are $75K average. Not total compensation packages. Total compensation packages are much much higher than that.

The rest of your stuff is just unsubstantiated nonsense as well.
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Is this your way of saying that you can't tell me how I'm wrong?
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
That doesn't make it right.
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Oh yes it does. Just because you don't like it and are misinformed on it (as are most antiunion people) means nothing to it. Tenure will always be around. They have it at non union schools too you know. Same protections.



It's already happening and if they don't reign in spending, it's gonna happen again.

Moody

The corruption is Chicago is meaningless.
Someone is taking the time to control spending, before things get much worse.
You and others are opposed to it, rather going with the status quo.
Click to expand...

Teachers have nothing to do with phony mortgages and mismanagment of funds. This "take control of spending" nonsense is a dodge.
 
The Man said:
False. Their SALARIES are $75K average. Not total compensation packages. Total compensation packages are much much higher than that.



Is this your way of saying that you can't tell me how I'm wrong?
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You have no way of proving that assertion.
 
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