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Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

jet57 said:
eeehhhh; sorry. That doesn't quite qualify as an answer. And without a source, your salary assertions don't carry much weight.
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Alrighty. :shrug:
 
Josie said:
I do, however, know teachers living in a very low income small town who make over $65,000 - $70,000. That's at least double the average income in the town.
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That's how it is where I live. It's a relatively low cost area, average income is about $35K-$40K, average public school teacher salary is about $70K.

I have no problem with the teachers where I live being paid that well, and they are paid VERY well, both in salary and benefits, and they deserve it, it's a tough job and most of them are very good teachers, but I do have a problem with public sector union BS.
 
The Man said:
That's how it is where I live. It's a relatively low cost area, average income is about $35K-$40K, average public school teacher income is about $70K.

I have no problem with the teachers where I live being paid that well, and they are paid VERY well, both in salary and benefits, and they deserve it, it's a tough job, but I do have a problem with public sector union BS.
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At the risk of going off topic, please define public sector BS. And if you can link it to teachers the better.
 
jet57 said:
At the risk of going off topic, please define public sector BS. And if you can link it to teachers the better.
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An example of public sector UNION BS would be the very topic of this thread that you are posting in.
 
They make even more in CT. My wife's cousin and husband are both teachers, and they live in a 600k house.
 
jet57 said:
At the risk of going off topic, please define public sector BS. And if you can link it to teachers the better.
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They're leveraging their position against the wishes of the voters.
They hold the public hostage, as there is no real competition to public education.

A large part of their demands is rent seeking, because they aren't providing any greater service or return for these increases in wages and benefits.
 
The Man said:
That's how it is where I live. It's a relatively low cost area, average income is about $35K-$40K, average public school teacher salary is about $70K.

I have no problem with the teachers where I live being paid that well, and they are paid VERY well, both in salary and benefits, and they deserve it, it's a tough job and most of them are very good teachers, but I do have a problem with public sector union BS.
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So do I. The good news, though, is that (at least insofar as I'm aware) in most states, this hasn't been a problem.
 
teamosil said:
Let me give you a personal example. My mom was a public school first grade teacher. She worked for 30 or so years and when she retired about maybe 7 years ago she was making $37,000 a year. She has a master's degree plus 45 credits in education. During the school year, she worked M-F from 7:30 AM until about 8 PM typically. She worked usually something like 10 hours a weekend during the school year. During the summers she would typically take about 2 weeks off to take me and my brother camping or something like that, but other than that she would be working maybe an average of 5 hours a day. All told, she certainly worked more hours a year than your typical worker in most industries. Out of that $37,000 a year, she spend something like $5,000 out of her own pocket on supplies the school couldn't afford, buying things like jackets for kids who couldn't afford them, and covering other miscellaneous expenses for field trips and that kind of thing. She wrote the math curriculum for the entire state and then developed a reading program for kids with developmental disabilities that has had two Phd. dissertations written about it, has been written up in a number of national magazines, and has been adopted by about a dozen school districts around the country. She is retired now, but she still spends several weeks each year working on updating the reading program on her own time and sending the updates around to the schools that have adopted it. She was chosen for the teacher of the year award for the state, but she turned it down because she didn't like people making a big deal out of her. She has pulled kids out of abusive home situations, she has gone over to kids' houses at night when their parents were out of the picture to cook them dinner, and all kinds of other stuff like that. She is one of the smartest, hardest working, people I know. Were she in the private sector she would easily have been making six figures. Probably high six figures.

So when I hear people ranting about how it isn't really work and they're paid too much... Well, it just fills me with disgust. What an awful, cruel, ignorant, thing to say. For shame.
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teamsoil, I have a B.A. in Early Childhood Ed and a M.Ed in Reading Education with a reading specialist endorsement. I have been teaching almost 10 years. I teach in a low income district. I make more than what your mom made at the end of her teaching. Every year I buy extra supplies for the kids, books, math manipulatives, prizes, games, office supplies, gifts.... tons of stuff. I've never kept track of how much I spend a year on school, but I do know that I spend at least $700 a year for just books from amazon. She sounds like an excellent teacher and a wonderful mother, but you should know I never said teachers don't work. You read it the wrong way and jumped to conclusions. I work my ass off for my kids. I'm good at my job and I'm paid well for it.

The almost retired teachers at my school make at least $50,000 + benefits. Coming from a family whose dad only made about $23,000 a year, I'd say that's pretty darn good.
 
jet57 said:
At the risk of going off topic, please define public sector BS. And if you can link it to teachers the better.
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Are you lost? Confused? Is this not an entire thread about that very thing? Do I need to link this thread to you, or perhaps just the OP?
 
KevinKohler said:
They make even more in CT. My wife's cousin and husband are both teachers, and they live in a 600k house.
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Yeah, teachers in CT are the highest paid, I think.
 
The Man said:
An example of public sector UNION BS would be the very topic of this thread that you are posting in.
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You mean teachers striking for better schools.
 
Camlon said:
Well, a lot of people disagree with you, and that makes it harder to find teachers for poor areas. Based on demand, they should get a higher wage. I don't feel having parents involved is big problem. I want them to be involved. However, I disagree with you on lunch , I prefer the food in the poorer areas.

As you disagree then you can take a job in a ghetto school and get a higher wage. Today you can not.

Wages should be based on the market demand, not what we think they deserve.
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Classrooms are empty because teachers are refusing to come to school. Not because they can't find teachers.
 
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Harry Guerrilla said:
They're leveraging their position against the wishes of the voters.
They hold the public hostage, as there is no real competition to public education.

A large part of their demands is rent seeking, because they aren't providing any greater service or return for these increases in wages and benefits.
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Well, number one: they're not leveraging anything. They are exercising their rights to strike under thier rights to collective bargaining. Secondly; as I said earlier, it's the first time in 25 years, so that alone tells you something. Thirdly, public education is not a business plan or a competitive sport. It's the next best thing to a right for education afforded to all.

And "rent seeking" as you put it is not an issue. The issue is closed schools creating a greater stress on already crowded scools, adding unecessary stresses to overcrowded kids in an urban setting, where stress already exists that are higher than the burbs.

Teachers are being singled out becasue not everybody qualifies under "standardized tests" that are created by private contractors who have an interest in privatizing education which creates a market for subcontractors.

Lastly, I've been writing all over this board that the big strikes were coming and here we go.
 
The Man said:
They're not striking for better schools. How does the teachers going on strike make Chicago public schools better?
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There should be a strike against parents who don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework, leave them at school instead of picking them up, etc. I can't tell you how many parents I have talked to that are completely oblivious to what their child needs to do every night to be a good student. It's very telling when you have a class of 20 kids and SEVEN parents show up for Open House. SEVEN. That's completely ridiculous.
 
The Man said:
Let me get this straight. Chicago public school teachers make $75K/year on average, work a five hour day, have summers off, cadillac health benefits and guaranteed, defined pensions, and they think they should be paid more than that if they work a 7 hour work day, and that their positions shouldn't be evaluated individually for performance and subject to pay increases based on merit?

If I have that correct, they have got to be effing kidding me.
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But don't forget, we need union to fight against the greedy capitalist school owners.... uh.. wait...nevermind.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
That's baloney, they're striking for an increase in pay and to keep their benefit costs the same.
Saying it's for better schools is a lie, on their part.
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You are unfortuantely uninformed.
 
KevinKohler said:
Are you lost? Confused? Is this not an entire thread about that very thing? Do I need to link this thread to you, or perhaps just the OP?
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You're not Harry Guerrilla so that settles that.
 
Josie said:
There should be a strike against parents who don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework, leave them at school instead of picking them up, etc. I can't tell you how many parents I have talked to that are completely oblivious to what their child needs to do every night to be a good student. It's very telling when you have a class of 20 kids and SEVEN parents show up for Open House. SEVEN. That's completely ridiculous.
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I don't think I have ever met a teacher who has failed to blame parents when a student does poorly.

I honestly don't understand why we bother with teachers in the first place.
 
I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I honestly do not understand people who say all teachers deserve more money, all teachers work hard, all teachers deserve respect, all teachers are wonderful, sweet, caring, kind, comforting and good at their jobs. It's just not true. There are lazy, self-centered, mind-numbingly STUPID teachers out there. Just because teaching is sometimes a difficult job doesn't mean that every person who chooses that line of work is somehow a god-like figure who deserves to be worshiped. Are some teachers underpaid? You bet. Are some teachers OVERpaid? Without a doubt. It seems like education is the only field where you can get a pay raise simply for being on the job another year and not being fired. That's stupid.
 
jet57 said:
Well, number one: they're not leveraging anything. They are exercising their rights to strike under thier rights to collective bargaining. Secondly; as I said earlier, it's the first time in 25 years, so that alone tells you something. Thirdly, public education is not a business plan or a competitive sport. It's the next best thing to a right for education afforded to all.
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They are leveraging.
It's basically, "we didn't get our way, so we won't show up to work and you have to find somewhere to put your kids."
"Just give us what we want and everything will go back to normal."

It tells me that they got their way for 25 years, that is, until budgetary realities caught up with them.
Hell, they aren't even getting a pay cut, just a more modest pay increase and they have the nerve to complain.


jet57 said:
And "rent seeking" as you put it is not an issue. The issue is closed schools creating a greater stress on already crowded scools, adding unecessary stresses to overcrowded kids in an urban setting, where stress already exists that are higher than the burbs.
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Schools are being closed, because running them is costing real dollars.
With a $700 million dollar budget deficit, which will balloon because of debt downgrades and higher interest rates, they have to cut education.
It's one of the largest budget items in Chicago.

Again, reality has caught up with CPU.


jet57 said:
Teachers are being singled out becasue not everybody qualifies under "standardized tests" that are created by private contractors who have an interest in privatizing education which creates a market for subcontractors.

Lastly, I've been writing all over this board that the big strikes were coming and here we go.
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The first part is just conspiracy theory.
The latter was already known, this was going to happen because the demands of public ed, don't keep up with economic reality.
 
The Man said:
Let me get this straight. Chicago public school teachers make $75K/year on average, work a five hour day, have summers off, cadillac health benefits and guaranteed, defined pensions, and they think they should be paid more than that if they work a 7 hour work day, and that their positions shouldn't be evaluated individually for performance and subject to pay increases based on merit?

If I have that correct, they have got to be effing kidding me.
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Uh, no, you don't have that correct, and I'm not effing kidding . . .
 
Donahue said:
I don't think I have ever met a teacher who has failed to blame parents when a student does poorly.

I honestly don't understand why we bother with teachers in the first place.
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That's not what I said. Not all parents are to blame. Some parents work their asses off trying to help their child. Sometimes the kid has a horrible teacher. He might have a cognitive issue or behavioral issue.

My post was only about the BAD parents. I guess I assumed that was clear when it wasn't to some.
 
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