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Thread: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    How do I do my part as a chef to produce a steak dinner when you as the owner of the restaurant only provide me with hamburger and a small stove with which to cook for an entire room of people.
    Oh, stop.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    The main thing for which the teachers should be held accountable are results. The school system is entirely paid for by the public. They cannot share in any profits because they make none. The evaluations are really their only bargaining chip and they cannot cash it because by any reasonable measure they are failing. Every evaluation system is fought against, results are always disputed as a problem with the evaluation. Tenure is the most abused idea ever created. Time to decertify this union.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Here's what seems the relevant facts - discounting the whatever-the-union-wants supporters and unions-are-always-wrong union haters.

    1. The school district is hundreds of millions of dollars in the hole, with even more debt than that.
    2. The average teacher's salary is around $75,000 - meaning with health and retirement benefits and perks it approaches $100,000 a year.
    3. The teachers work 27 1/2 hours a week - with 12 weeks vacation including the entirety of the Christmas - New Years holiday.
    4. No one in the private or public sector works so few of full time hours or has as much vacation.
    5. The average salary for people of similar level of education in the area is not $75/$100K a year.
    6. 1 out of 8 people in the area are unemployed or seriously under-employed - not counting those who have given up looking for a job.

    In response to the school district saying teachers will have to start working 35 hours a week, the teachers want annual pay increases of approximately $11,000 over the next 4 years. They are now on strike for that pay raise.

    The private sector would address this by giving notice of:
    1. At the end of the week they will offer all teachers' positions as available to be permanently filled at the wages and benefits being offered by the city to the teachers.
    2. For any position filled, the teacher that had the position has lost his/her job to the new hire permanent replacement.
    3. There will be no back pay during the strike for those teachers who do later return if their position has not been filled.

    Within 4 to 6 weeks, most positions would have been filled and those not would be filled by teachers flocking back to save their jobs - when in fact virtually none could find private sector jobs paying 1/3rd what they make now take-home as teachers. I suspect most would be working part-time as waitresses/waiters, fry cooks and Wal-Mart stockers $1.50 above minimum wage with no benefits whatsoever. They would figure that out quick enough as they tried to find jobs to make up the lost income during the strike.

    However, because the mayor is a "pro-labor" Democrat he doesn't have that option. Given how crappy the Chicago educational system is, I think even the people of Chicago will have little sympathy for them.

    Are any of my facts above inaccurate?
    Please show me where the average teacher's salary is $75,000 a year.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    I bet the union doesn't push for a recall against the Democratic mayor like they did in Wisconsin, whatjathink?

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    The main thing for which the teachers should be held accountable are results. The school system is entirely paid for by the public. They cannot share in any profits because they make none. The evaluations are really their only bargaining chip and they cannot cash it because by any reasonable measure they are failing. Every evaluation system is fought against, results are always disputed as a problem with the evaluation. Tenure is the most abused idea ever created. Time to decertify this union.
    Moreover take it out of City Politics. Where the Mayor can appoint who he wants to run things.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I bet the union doesn't push for a recall against the Democratic mayor like they did in Wisconsin, whatjathink?
    The conditions are waaaay different.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    How do I do my part as a chef to produce a steak dinner when you as the owner of the restaurant only provide me with hamburger and a small stove with which to cook for an entire room of people.
    That's not the analogy. How do you as chef end up keeping your job when you are supplied with steak as a raw material and you only serve hamburger to the people you contracted to serve?

    Again, all this obfuscation of the issue is unnecessary. We've already established the pay is there and the results are not.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Please show me where the average teacher's salary is $75,000 a year.
    It's all over the internet -- the school system isn't as transparent as it should be, but $75,000 is pretty close. Here's one source for $73,486 average: CPS teachers say more than dollars and cents at stake in next contract
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Please show me where the average teacher's salary is $75,000 a year.
    Earnings of Educators in Chicago
    In May 2009 the mean annual wage estimate for teachers in Chicago was $62,240, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics. Wage estimates for postsecondary teachers ranged from $40,810 to $102,300. Ironically, postsecondary economics teachers were at the low end of this spectrum. Their counterparts in health specialties occupied the high end. While there were only 260 positions available for economics teachers, there were 390 spots available for health specialties teachers. Elementary, middle and secondary school teachers had a mean annual earnings range between $47,350 and $74,530.

    The mean annual statewide earnings for the teaching profession in Illinois came in at $57,000, according to May 2009 Bureau of Labor Statistics data. This is approximately 10 percent less than that of teachers working in Chicago. Postsecondary teachers had mean annual earnings of between $51,590 and $79,100. Both architecture and health specialties were the highest paying areas statewide. Teachers in elementary, middle and secondary schools had a mean annual earnings range of $45,380 to $67,960.

    The Average Salary of a Teacher in Chicago | eHow.com


    The CTU got its first written contract with the Board of Education in 1966, under the leadership of the late John Desmond:

    His tenure was marked by three-cornered battles waged by the union, the Chicago Board of Education and the Illinois General Assembly over the Chicago school budget. In his six years in office starting salaries for teachers went from $5,500 to $9,570.....snip~

    2010-2011: the CPS gives a starting salary of $50,577 for a first-year teacher with a bachelor's degree. But that's including the seven-percent "pension pickup," which comes from the Board of Education: it's compensation, obviously, but not money teachers get right now.

    Since that doesn't seem to be regularly included in the salaries quoted by news reports, it's probably better for comparison to subtract it, which can easily be done with the more detailed tables provided by CPS (PDF).

    If we do that, the starting salary is $47,628. The maximum, for a teacher with 20 years' experience and a doctorate, is $88,680 ($93,817 if you include the pension pickup). The average, according to the AP, is $69,000.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Chicago Teacher Salaries: The Long View - The 312 - June 2011 - Chicago


    Hard to believe it began in 1966.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Collective bargaining is fine in the private sector, but in the public sector it is just plain wrong.

    I sure hope those poor teachers slaving away at 75k per year, get their raises so they can stop eating dog food and foraging for food out of dumpsters.
    I was going to write a response defending their salaries but I honestly don't even think that's the issue. That same logic is never applied when asking millionaires for a tax increase in order to close down deficits....instead it's class warfare to ask people that make exponentially more money to take a cut in order to close budget deficits.

    Things like Citizens United which allow rich individuals to have a higher than 1 vote say so in how our country is run is fine in your view.

    But when middle class teachers collectively bargain to have a voice? When they get angry that deficits are closed on their back? Time to pull out the tar and feathers! I think you really have to submerse yourself in propoganda in order to have such a distorted view.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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