Page 56 of 69 FirstFirst ... 646545556575866 ... LastLast
Results 551 to 560 of 685

Thread: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

  1. #551
    Haters gon' hate
    MarineTpartier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    01-04-16 @ 04:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,586
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanj63 View Post
    First of all, I fail to see how graduation rates refute the basic premise of my post. Maybe they refute what you decided my basic premise was on your own.

    My own research showed New York at 60% (from WSJ). Same with Philly at 60%. I can post links if you want. As far as Houston goes, I googled "how does houston calculate graduation rates" and the first page listed was this:

    "A few years ago, the Houston School District was lauded as having very high graduation rates. But the so-called
    “Houston Miracle” became famously mired in controversy after a state audit discovered that at some schools, more
    than half the students classified as “discharged” should have been classified as dropouts.
    How graduation rates were calculated for the class of 2004
    Texas’s practices in defining the graduation rate are partly to blame for what expert Dan Losen of the Civil Rights
    Project at Harvard University has called the “miracle of misrepresentation.” The state continues to boast an
    84.6% graduation rate for the class of 2004, while independent estimates put the rate between 65 and 70%.
    • Texas records 20 different graduation types, all counted as receiving regular diplomas.
    • From the ninth-grade cohort, Texas subtracts students in 29 “leaver” categories, including separate categories
    for students who are enrolled in GED programs, incarcerated, and participating in court-ordered alternative
    programs; students who transfer or intend to transfer (without confirmation); unknown and unlisted leavers;
    and students who leave under administrative withdrawal. None of these students are considered dropouts;
    they are just not counted. For the purpose of calculating high school graduation rates, these students have
    simply ceased to exist.
    Step 1. Identify the cohort for the class of 2004: 348,039 entering ninth-grade students.
    Step 2. Adjust the cohort: 348,039 students minus 60,527 leavers plus 16,601 students with data errors
    equals the adjusted cohort for the class of 2004: 270,911 students (the denominator).
    Step 3. Identify the graduates for the class of 2004: 270,911 minus 10,507 dropouts plus 19,826 students
    staying in school plus 11,445 GED recipients equals total graduates for the class of 2004: 229,133
    students (the numerator).
    Step 4. Divide graduates by the adjusted cohort: 84.6% graduation rate."

    So Houston calculates graduation rates differently and to their own advantage it seems.
    Like I readily admitted, I didn't read your entire post. I may have jumped to conclusions based off of the first few lines. If I did, I apologize.
    As far as the data, we can source and counter source all day. I am simply posting what I found. It's not like I cited some sort of off the wall blog for a source. My sources were state websites and ABC news, both credible IMO. Grad rates are just like unemployment numbers and the national debt. We can finagle it however we want and make it say what we want. My point is, according to stats reported by the states themselves, NY and Houston have a higher grad rate than Chicago.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  2. #552
    Student
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Fremont, CA
    Last Seen
    06-18-15 @ 03:33 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    155

    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    What else is the purpose of going to school other than to graduate? We have to have measurables. Standardized testing, literacy rates, etc are good measurables to use. Graduation rate, IMO, is the best measurable to use. Its the entire focus and goal of going to school to begin with. It is statistically proven that not graduating high school leads to poverty, crime, etc. If you think I'm advocating for lax standards to make rates higher, you are mistaken. That's not my point at all. My point is that these teachers can't claim they are teaching in a tougher area than New York or Houston. Teachers in those states face the same hurdles and challenges. I'd say the teachers in Houston have it harder because they have a language barrier to deal with as well due to a larger Hispanic population. But somehow, someway, they make it happen. That Chicago teachers are asking for higher percentage pay raises than virtually anyone in the country (including Federal employees), to drop evaluation standards, and then mask it to look like they're doing it for the kids is despicable. If you don't believe grad rate is a good measurable, what is?
    I happened some years back to watch on Frontline on PBS. I believe it was on, that even teachers well trained can have terrible classes.

    She was black as the ace of spades and so was her class. I give the teacher enormous credit for trying to teach those kids given she had to have daily fights with the parents who claimed she tried to teach the kids, ... get this, the way white kids would get taught. I was sad when the program stated that this very caring teacher got released due to not making mandated standards. Well, those parents made it clear they did not like her. One of her students begged her to downplay his grades so the other kids did not know he got decent grades. Well, his good grades still had him doing bad in college. See, his level of education simply was not up to uncle tom standards and he had serious problems keeping up with college. Darned nice kid too.

  3. #553
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,953

    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Then you don't support teachers.
    He just said that he did. And there really is a diff between supporting teachers and supporting teachers' unions.

    I also support teachers wholeheartedly. Not unions and not the AAUP.

  4. #554
    Sage
    jet57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    not here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:59 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    24,761

    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I'll take that opinion just as seriously as I've taken your expertise, which comes from having coffee with a couple of your profs.

    As a primer, if you Google "culture of measurement and assessment," which you apparently are unfamiliar with, these are the first two hits, and the first has been cited over 1100 times:

    http://math.arizona.edu/~cemela/engl...eading%202.pdf

    http://library.mpib-berlin.mpg.de/toc/z2007_216.pdf

    If you don't realize that kids left unsupervised in Chicago are in danger, then maybe you're unfamiliar with that city. That's not hyperbole.
    Insults notwithstanding. You're talking about social assessments. These kids are going to be no more unsupervised than they were during their summer vacation . . . So, you're just being hyperbolic.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  5. #555
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Last Seen
    07-07-16 @ 08:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    2,854

    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Here's another source on this numbers: Teaching Positions Salaries in Chicago, IL | Simply Hired

    So, there ya go.
    Your source also says the average wage of doctors in Chicago is 63K.
    Doctor Salaries in Chicago, IL | Simply Hired

    And the average salary in walmart is 56K
    Walmart Salaries in Chicago, IL | Simply Hired

    Your source sucks monkeyballs. Sources I have read show that teachers in Chicago earns 71K on average.

  6. #556
    Sage
    jet57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    not here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:59 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    24,761

    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    So schools teachers are not just employed to teach, but to also write, provide research and opinion on potentially controversial subjects?
    Sorry, but your opinion just doesn't line up with reality.
    Academia is not only a profession, but a field of study. You're really just blank on tis subject: sorry, but you're wasting my time.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  7. #557
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,953

    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Academia is not only a profession, but a field of study. You're really just blank on tis subject: sorry, but you're wasting my time.
    Actually, he was noting an important distinction between secondary-ed teachers and professors. That you failed to understand this further suggests that you don't really know very much about this general subject.

  8. #558
    Haters gon' hate
    MarineTpartier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    01-04-16 @ 04:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,586
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert A Whit View Post
    I happened some years back to watch on Frontline on PBS. I believe it was on, that even teachers well trained can have terrible classes.

    She was black as the ace of spades and so was her class. I give the teacher enormous credit for trying to teach those kids given she had to have daily fights with the parents who claimed she tried to teach the kids, ... get this, the way white kids would get taught. I was sad when the program stated that this very caring teacher got released due to not making mandated standards. Well, those parents made it clear they did not like her. One of her students begged her to downplay his grades so the other kids did not know he got decent grades. Well, his good grades still had him doing bad in college. See, his level of education simply was not up to uncle tom standards and he had serious problems keeping up with college. Darned nice kid too.
    I'm waiting on your point......
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  9. #559
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,953

    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Academia is not only a profession, but a field of study. You're really just blank on tis subject: sorry, but you're wasting my time.
    And it's not a "field of study." "Academia" refers to "Members of the Academy."

  10. #560
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,953

    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Insults notwithstanding. You're talking about social assessments. These kids are going to be no more unsupervised than they were during their summer vacation . . . So, you're just being hyperbolic.
    I am not talking about "social" assessments, whatever they are (Good hygiene? Ability to play well with others?). I am talking about measurement and assessment in education--measurable "outcomes" and etc.

    Don't know what part of the country you're from, but if you Google, you can locate the accrediting agency for your state and/or region. When you do, you will see for yourself what I'm talking about.

    And BTW, at some point you just might want to wonder if just maybe I might know what I'm talking about and why.

Page 56 of 69 FirstFirst ... 646545556575866 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •